DrB Posted 10 October , 2006 Share Posted 10 October , 2006 Westlake's book states "R. Irish" worn until 1902. "Royal Irish" from 1902-1920 was then worn as the title. Officers of that regt wore "RI" until 1920. "RIR" for the Irish Rifles. DrB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swizz Posted 10 October , 2006 Share Posted 10 October , 2006 Yes - I've only seen the RIR shoulder titles referred to as being Rifles! Swizz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curranl Posted 10 October , 2006 Share Posted 10 October , 2006 Hello All, Tom Johnstone in Orange, Green and Khaki says abbreviation for Royal Irish Rifles was RIR and Royal Irish Regiment was RIrR. I know it's not necessarily the same as the shoulder badge, but it might be Regards, Liam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Nulty Posted 10 October , 2006 Author Share Posted 10 October , 2006 Pals I have a friend who showed me a large, framed sketch last night which he had picked up at a flea market. I didn't have a camera so couldn't get a shot of it, but is shows a man in a dark uniform with a shoulder badge with "RIR". Is this Royal Irish Regiment or Royal Irish Rifles. He was wearing one of those round caps, without any brim, at a VERY jaunty angle and had Sergeant stripes. Written on the back of the drawing is "James Gordon, Radcliffe on Trent, near Nottingham", although this might, of course, be the artist. There's no date anywhere, but the image and the writing suggest to me early part of 20th Century. I'd like to delve into this a little further, but the first question is....which regiment is RIR? I'll upload a picture of it within the next week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desmond7 Posted 10 October , 2006 Share Posted 10 October , 2006 I could get panned for this .. but I THINK the Royal irish regiment (pre partition) would have had Royal Irish on their shoulders while the Rifles would have had RIR? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Nulty Posted 11 October , 2006 Author Share Posted 11 October , 2006 Desmondo Thanks for that. I've no idea either way. It might be best if I wait until I can get a shot of it uploaded, then one of the uniform Johnnies will put me straight. Cheers Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Nulty Posted 11 October , 2006 Author Share Posted 11 October , 2006 Chaps Many thanks for the posts. Looks like it's unanimous that RIR is "Royal Irish Rifles". I checked the 1901 census for a James Gordon of Radcliffe, near Nottingham, and found an entry for a chap aged 67 who is recorded as being born in Scotland and is an "Army Pensioner - Serjeant Major", so this might be my man. I did have a feeling that the uniform looked Victorian but wasn't sure. Anyway, I went back to the 1891 census and found him at the same address, but working as a "Rural Postman". His children are shown as being born in Gibraltar (1871 & 1872) and Poohah, India (1874). So the next question is....... Would RIR have been stationed at either of these places at around those dates? I hope to have a picture uploaded by the end of the week. Cheers Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrB Posted 12 October , 2006 Share Posted 12 October , 2006 Looks like he was 1st Bn, RIR. Chichester and Burges Short say of the First Bn, RIR: (83rd Foot prior to 1881) "After a tour of home service it embarked for Gibraltar in 1867 and served there until 1870, when it was sent onto Bombay. The battalion served in that Presidency until 1881, when it was ordered to Natal." No other bn of the RIR or the IR fits your description. Bear in mind that the pillbox forage cap was worn in "walking out" until about 1901 and shoulder titles reflecting the regiment were not worn until after 1881. There were also regimental conflicts regarding metal versus woven titles for the dress tunics. I have a pre-war Rifle Brigade tunic with black woven titles which is almost impossible to read, however??? Hope this helps in dating your picture. DrB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Nulty Posted 13 October , 2006 Author Share Posted 13 October , 2006 DrB That's fantastic information, many thanks. The battalion movements fit in with the dates of birth of the children, so it looks as if I'm on the right path. In addition, the reference to the pill box cap only being worn until about 1901 and the shoulder badges being post-1881 helps to give some date context. I still have a feeling that the picture could be of James Gordon, in which case given the above information and the census returns, it would be 1881 - 1891, or just perhaps it's his son Frederick (b. 1874, Poonah), which would date the picture 1891 - 1901. The quest continues !!! Managed to get a few shots of the picture yesterday, but can't find my flippin' lead to upload them !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Nulty Posted 23 October , 2006 Author Share Posted 23 October , 2006 Finally managed to get the picture uploaded. I'll leave it in this forum for now, rather than "Soldiers" or "Uniforms", just to retain the information already posted. So....anybody got anything to add on this, specifically looking for a date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now