MaryLennon Posted 9 October , 2006 Share Posted 9 October , 2006 me again.............tsk When auchonvillerssomme sent me the link to the National Archives, he had no idea what he was doing, I have been searching for anything, any tiny bit of information about my Grandfather for 5 years, and obviously I have been looking in all the wrong places and forgetting spelling variations......I found my GF Julius Keenan Wylie, (Kernan in the NA., close but no cigar) I paid for the Medals Card £3.50 and worth every penny for the expression on my (90) year old mothers face when I showed her the print out today Now.........the problem I have is although I can read most of what's on the card, I don't understand most of it, could someone please help me understand what all the numbers and such is about. http://www.lennonwylie.co.uk/wylieinfo.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desmond7 Posted 9 October , 2006 Share Posted 9 October , 2006 Arrived in France 5/10/15 - looks like he was in Ulster Div Royal Irish Rifles cos that ties in with their deployment - that means he qualified for the 1915 star because he was in theatre before the cut off date for that medal. Thus he has the Star, British War and Victory Medals .. or the famous trio which I understand is often referred to as Pip Squeak and Wilfred. Commissioned (by the looksof things) 26/6/1917 - pretty much in the aftermath of the battle of Messines? I don't know enough about numbering but is that a 9/13903 I can see. Off to check if there are many similar numbers in 13th Royal irish Rifles (Co. Downs) who by the way were the worst hit 36th Div. unit for fatals on 1st July 1916. I could be wrong on that one though. Have you checked the Ulster Covenant website? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desmond7 Posted 9 October , 2006 Share Posted 9 October , 2006 13th Co Downs not working out as far as I can see. Where was he from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desmond7 Posted 9 October , 2006 Share Posted 9 October , 2006 But arrival dates seem to fit http://www.freewebs.com/denbob/ulsterdivfrance.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auchonvillerssomme Posted 10 October , 2006 Share Posted 10 October , 2006 Glad I can still make ladies happy. Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audax Posted 10 October , 2006 Share Posted 10 October , 2006 Did you look at this file too? Piece details: WO 339/36945 WYLIE J K, Capt 1914-1923 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaryLennon Posted 11 October , 2006 Author Share Posted 11 October , 2006 Glad I can still make ladies happy. Mick JK was born in Antrim (I think, know so little) and died here too, I don't think he ever left Ireland, except during the war............ This is great guys............ Will read thoroughly after school run.>> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Baker Posted 11 October , 2006 Share Posted 11 October , 2006 As he was commissioned as an officer, his service record will be at the National Archives. The prefix to his number (when he was a ranker) looks like an 8 or 9; they were the East and West Belfast battalions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Baker Posted 11 October , 2006 Share Posted 11 October , 2006 And on an entirely disconnected note - I like Bangor. I used to drive out that way quite often when I was working at Shorts some years ago. Some nice fish suppers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete L Posted 11 October , 2006 Share Posted 11 October , 2006 In the September 1918 Army List he is listed as a temporary Lieutenant in the Labour Corps. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaryLennon Posted 11 October , 2006 Author Share Posted 11 October , 2006 In the September 1918 Army List he is listed as a temporary Lieutenant in the Labour Corps. Pete Yep he was Corporal, Temp Lieutenant, then Lieutenant............have I got the order right? I think he's buried in the City Grave Yard Belfast..... Where are these lists, are they available online to mere mortals like me? So..would I have enough information to get his service records from the NA? you lot are great, did I mention that Did you look at this file too? Piece details: WO 339/36945 WYLIE J K, Capt Where do I find this, in the N.A.s? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete L Posted 11 October , 2006 Share Posted 11 October , 2006 No it is a book. That is all the information it gives. If you can get to Kew they have a complete set of Army Lists for this period. They issued four per year. And you can track his movements. Mind you his service papers should give the same information. I tried searching for him in the online London Gazette, but it is running slow today. There was another officer called J K Wylie. He was in a Scottish regiment. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaryLennon Posted 11 October , 2006 Author Share Posted 11 October , 2006 No it is a book. That is all the information it gives. If you can get to Kew they have a complete set of Army Lists for this period. They issued four per year. And you can track his movements. Mind you his service papers should give the same information. I tried searching for him in the online London Gazette, but it is running slow today. There was another officer called J K Wylie. He was in a Scottish regiment. Pete Thank you Pete, yes the internet seems to be dragging its hiney a bit today, thought it was just me. I'm in Northern Ireland so a visit to Kew isn't an option, I will talk to my mother and see if I can get any more details, although that can be difficult, she is 90 Audax, I did look at that one for the Capt., and as I said to Pete, I need to talk to my mother and see if it's possible that he was a Captain, Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaryLennon Posted 11 October , 2006 Author Share Posted 11 October , 2006 And on an entirely disconnected note - I like Bangor. I used to drive out that way quite often when I was working at Shorts some years ago. Some nice fish suppers! I like Bangor too Chris, been in the area for.........oh.........34 years now. Wish they'd finish the seafront though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaryLennon Posted 13 October , 2006 Author Share Posted 13 October , 2006 Hello again, I found some documents, I think these confirm what you lovely people have told me......hopefully, on the second doc. it says he was a Lance Sergeant.? whats that about when you're writing home? Mary http://www.lennonwylie.co.uk/ww1_documents.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete L Posted 17 October , 2006 Share Posted 17 October , 2006 Thanks for the downloads - excellent quality. His commission would be the 27th of June 1917, the day after his discharge. You should find it in the London Gazette a short time after then. His first officer rank would have been Second Lieutenant, and he would then have been promoted sometime to Lieutenant (maybe Acting Lieutenant), and later Acting Captain. My grandfather was discharged as a sergeant major and was commissioned the next day as a 2nd Lieutenant, and promoted the same day to Acting Captain and Adjutant. They needed an Adjutant for a new battalion. This caused problems a year later, when his battalion was scrapped, and he reverted back to 2nd Lieutenant, which gave him half the pay of a sergeant major, with 25 years service. And he had a wife and seven children to support! It was the commission that was temporary, as the vast majority of commissions were during WW1. So he ended the war as a (Temporary) Acting Captain. Confusing is it not? At least the civil servants give you his age in years and days, if you needed to find his date of birth. That reference found by Audax could be him or the Scottish J K Wylie. If you go through the London Gazette, you might find what rank the Scot left with. In everyday use your GF would have been known simply as Captain. Lance Sergeant was a rank (now defunct) between Corporal and Sergeant. It was an appointment, rather than a promotion – like L/Cpl is today. Men often did not get extra money for it straight away, if ever. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete L Posted 17 October , 2006 Share Posted 17 October , 2006 Just to add... 3rd Ba is actually 3rd Battn (Battalion) (of the Royal Irish Rifles). See http://www.1914-1918.net/ririfles.htm for details of the 3rd Battn. He was back in his first unit when he retired in March 1919, having been in the Labour Corps in September 1918. You may have to trawl through entries for Wylie in the London Gazette to plot his promotions and movements. The one interesting gap is when he was promoted from 2nd Lieut to Lieutenant, and if he served abroad as an officer. BTW if you have his medals, what does it say on the Star? Is he down as an enlisted man? The other two should be as an officer. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 17 October , 2006 Share Posted 17 October , 2006 A few extracts from the London Gazette (these can be freely used, I believe): LG 31-1-1918 War Office, 31st January, 1918. REGULAR FORCES. The undermentioned temp. 2nd Lts. (attd.), unless otherwise stated, are transferred to Serv. Bns. 26th Sept. 1917 :— INFANTRY. From Res. Bns.— R. Ir. Rif.— J. K. Wylie. 27th June 1917. http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/archiveVi...;selHonourType= -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I believe these refer to the Scottish J K Wylie: LG 8-7-1916 War Office, 8th July 1916. REGULAR FORCES. The undermentioned temp. 2nd Lts. are transferred from Res. Bns. (except where otherwise stated), with seniority shown against their names: — INFANTRY. Service Battalions. R. Scots.— J. K. Wylie. 17th Mar. 1915. http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/archiveVi...;selHonourType= LG 2-1-1918 General List. The undermentioned temp. Lts. to be temp. Lts., retaining present seniority : — J. K. Wylie, from R. Scots. 18 Oct. 1917. http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/archiveVi...;selHonourType= LG 8-5-1918 Labour Corps. The undermentioned temp. Lts., from Gen. List, to be temp. Lts. 6 Mar. 1918, with seniority specified against their names: — J. K. Wylie. 1 July 1917. http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/archiveVi...;selHonourType= LG 26-3-1919 Labour Corps. Temp. Lt. J. K. Wylie to be temp. Capt. while empld. as Courts-Martial Offr., 2nd Army. 20 Dec. 1918. http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/archiveVi...;selHonourType= LG 1-4-1919 The undermentioned to be temp. Capts. whilst empld. as Courts-Martial Officers:— 20 December 1918 Temp. Lt. J. K. Wylie, Lab. Corps. http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/archiveVi...;selHonourType= LG 1-5-1919 8th Bn., Scottish Rifles.—Capt. J. K. Wylie (attd. 11th Bn., Royal Scots Fus.) is restored to the estbt. 27th F'eb. 1919. http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/archiveVi...;selHonourType= Hope this helps, Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaryLennon Posted 17 October , 2006 Author Share Posted 17 October , 2006 Just to add... 3rd Ba is actually 3rd Battn (Battalion) (of the Royal Irish Rifles). See http://www.1914-1918.net/ririfles.htm for details of the 3rd Battn. He was back in his first unit when he retired in March 1919, having been in the Labour Corps in September 1918. You may have to trawl through entries for Wylie in the London Gazette to plot his promotions and movements. The one interesting gap is when he was promoted from 2nd Lieut to Lieutenant, and if he served abroad as an officer. BTW if you have his medals, what does it say on the Star? Is he down as an enlisted man? The other two should be as an officer. Pete Thank you Pete, you make it easy to understand, Thanx for the heads up about Ba., didn't want to put the wrong thing in. The medals thing is a bit tricky, I know where they are but there's....erm.....family issues in getting a look at them, it will resolve itself given enough time. Mary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaryLennon Posted 17 October , 2006 Author Share Posted 17 October , 2006 Thank you so much Steve, I wasn't looking forward to going through the Gazette and I know I shouldn't complain because Broadband is far superior to the old dial-up but I'm only on half-a-gig, (country life) and it was very slow to open for me so Thank you, I appreciate you taking the time to do that for me Mary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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