RE Rank

[Petroc]

I recall once stumbling upon a reference to the rank of 'Pioneer' in the Royal Engineers; what would such a soldier's duties involved? And why was he not referred to as 'Sapper'? Were there any overlaps in terms of his work with the tasks performed by infantry Pioneer Batalions?

[stevem49]

have a look on my website under Arthur Daulman - www.ypressalient.co.uk - war diaries - Arthur Daulman. He was a Pioneer in the R.E.'s

He used to tell me that the only difference was that he did more labouring and got paid less! Although in 1918 he had to pick up a rifle as well.

stevem

[mhifle]

Pioneer was the lowest rank in the Royal Engineers and was held by a man not qualified in a military skill. Sappers, had qualified in an RE trade. The sapper and pioneer were both paid 1/2- per day.

Mark

have a look on my website under Arthur Daulman - www.ypressalient.co.uk - war diaries - Arthur Daulman. He was a Pioneer in the R.E.'s

He used to tell me that the only difference was that he did more labouring and got paid less! Although in 1918 he had to pick up a rifle as well.

stevem

[Petroc]

Cheers for that

but were these fellas distinguished during the war as 'Pioneers' as opposed to 'Sappers'? and if so, what was the potential for internal 'strife?

[stevem49]

Cheers for that

but were these fellas distinguished during the war as 'Pioneers' as opposed to 'Sappers'? and if so, what was the potential for internal 'strife?

Arthur who insisted he got paid less as a non tradesman said that they all got on well together. One cannot work without the other.

stevem

[andyspiller]

Mark

Interesting comment about no military skills! One of my men was a Pioneer by the end of the war but previously had spent 8 years in Grenandier Guards before the war, called back from the reserve in Nov 1914, then become a Military Policeman (with the GG) before being transferred to th RE in August 1916. Hardly a man with no skills.

Could you therefore elaborate on your comments for me?

Many thanks

Andy

[mhifle]

Hi Andy,

What I mean is that on entering the Corps of Royal Engineers with the rank of Pioneer you could then be remustered as a Sapper when examined for a trade proficiency at Chatham or some other training unit. But as a Pioneer you could go on and gain Military skills with the Royal Engineers labour organization that had been created to work in important army areas, say on roads, railways, handling ammunition, docks, supply depots, forestry work, quarries, hutting, trench building and grave digging. Also be called on to fight as infantry if the the enemy breaks through the frontline. So not yet having a trade proficiebcy rather than a Military skill.

Mark

Mark

Interesting comment about no military skills! One of my men was a Pioneer by the end of the war but previously had spent 8 years in Grenandier Guards before the war, called back from the reserve in Nov 1914, then become a Military Policeman (with the GG) before being transferred to th RE in August 1916. Hardly a man with no skills.

Could you therefore elaborate on your comments for me?

Many thanks

Andy

[andyspiller]

Mark

Many thanks for the clarification.

Rgds

Andy