Miniature medals

[timf311]

Hello the forum,

I have just purchased, in London, a set of unattributed miniatures and am interested in correctly attributing these to their owner. They comprise the following:

MC, DFC, AFC, 14-15 trio, 39-45 star, France and Germany Star, Defence and War medals, coronation 1910, 1937 and 1953, Air efficiency KGVI and what looks like a Maltese cross in white enamel and with a military trophy of arms above. (St John's ambulance?)

I am intrigued by the Coronation 1910 as it indicates an early position of influence.

I presume the MC, DFC, AFC are all WWI issue.

Google shows only 1,217 DFCs in WW1

Are there any on line registers of MC and DFC winners as a quick sort through these should narrow the field,

All help appreciated. I will work on a photo but it won't add much

Tim

[welshdoc]

the white maltese cross is for an officer (or higher) of the order of Saint john of Jerusalem. If your set is genuine then you may wish to start work on the london gazette. The AFC i think only started to be awarded in 1918 and there were about 600 . The MCs are relatively common but you could try to cross rederence the DFC. the order of saint john is also gazated but again is fairly common but for cross referencing may be useful. On the other hand you can hope someone has all the info you need. Cos its going to be a long haul though far from impossible. gareth

[Archer]

Mounted at the end of the group behind the Air Efficiency Award and described as "what looks like a Maltese cross in white enamel and with a military trophy of arms above" does NOT sound like the Badge of the Most Venerable Order of the Hospital of St. John of Jerusalem ... or, in other words, the British Order of St. John.

A photo would help.

Sovereign Order of Malta, perhaps ?

[timf311]

Hi, Photo herewith. (if it sticks) Also in next e mail, a photo just found on e-bay for reference. Looks like the miniature is the Russian Imperial Order of St John. What do you think? Would this have been gazetted or just issued by the Russian Government in exile. I believe they were at India House in 1918.

Are there any registers of the DFC and AFC on line? Cheers

Tim[attachmentidhttp://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/style_images/1/folder_mime_types/gif.gif

http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/s...e_types/gif.gif=45272]

[timf311]

Bear with me while I learn how to attach an image. Last post showed the e-bay pictures.

Herewith a picture of the minature I am trying to track down.

Cheers

Tim

[welshdoc]

Tim, sorry obout the duff ID i should have read the whole description. Try scanning the LG with the full name of the award it may be there somewhere I tried but did not find it, but a few slight variations may work. There are some experts on the forum who may be able to tell you how to get lists from the LG. Try a new topic with London gazette help in the title this normaly attracts the two Steves. gareth

[Archer]

I think what you have there is the miniature insignia of the Sovereign Military Order of Malta.

See the SMOM in America page.

Note the white cross on a red shield - which does not appear on the badge of the "Russian Imperial Order of St John" as found on e-bay.

[timf311]

Thank you, I have compared as you suggested and well done for finding the SMOM site. I do feel that there are more similarities with the Russian order of St John than with the Maltese order. I agree that the white cross on a red shield is different from the plain white cross but what do you think about the trophy of arms that surmounts the miniature I have? This, absent the red backing to the white shield seems identical with that of the Russian order and quite disimilar to the Maltese order. Cheers Tim in Sydney

I think what you have there is the miniature insignia of the Sovereign Military Order of Malta.

See the SMOM in America page.

Note the white cross on a red shield - which does not appear on the badge of the "Russian Imperial Order of St John" as found on e-bay.

[timf311]

Then again, it might be that the military grade of this award in both cases was designated by this superimposed trohpy of arms (or achievement) in which case you might well be right.

I shall keep looking.........Tim

Thank you, I have compared as you suggested and well done for finding the SMOM site. I do feel that there are more similarities with the Russian order of St John than with the Maltese order. I agree that the white cross on a red shield is different from the plain white cross but what do you think about the trophy of arms that surmounts the miniature I have? This, absent the red backing to the white shield seems identical with that of the Russian order and quite disimilar to the Maltese order. Cheers Tim in Sydney

[Archer]

Tim ...

I put the presence / absence of a trophy of arms down to three things:

1. Miniature medals are not manufactured to official specifications;

2. Your miniature is probably an older manufacture; and

3. Sensitivities about military emblems have changed greatly over the last 50 years.

As to the similarities with the "Russian Imperial Order of St John" as found on e-bay ... Heraldry is the most important factor. The SMOM bear a white cross on a red field. The manufacturers of the ebay badge don't.

That's my lot I'm afraid. Good luck going forward

[timf311]

Thanks again,

My local expert in Sydney has Pozers book on the Insignia and medals of the Order of St John and having seen the medal he does not think it is the UK Order. He thinks that the fleur de Lys rather than the animals between the points of the cross indicate the Russian or Belgian varieties of the order. I shall keep looking. Cheers

Tim