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Chris_Baker

1/9th Hampshire, Cyclists

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Chris_Baker

Does any member have any knowledge of the 1/9th Hampshire Regiment (Cyclist) TF? I'm researching Gilbert Hatch, who rose to Acting Sergeant with this unit. There seems to be precious little written about them, and no war diary other than when they were sent to Vladivostock at the end of 1918! What did they do to deserve that!

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HERITAGE PLUS

Chris

Bare bones only Im afraid

November 1911

9th (Cyclist) Battalion, The Hampshire Regiment

formed in T.F. with HQ at Southampton

March 1915 1/9th (Cyclist) Battalion, The Hampshire Regiment

renumbered on formation of 2/9th Battalion later 3/9th formed

Coastal Duty UK

November 1915 converted to infantry and provided personnel for 4th Provisional Cyclist Company (disbanded 13 Apr. 1916 at Norwich)

Garrison duty in India 1915-18 taking part in Waziristan Campaign (1.3.17-10.8.17) . Stationed at Ambala (East Punjab) sailed from Bombay via Colombo, Singapore and Hong-Kong to Russia.

1918 arrived Vladivostok on SS Dunera (32 Officers & 945 ORs). Graded A1.

February 1920 9th (Cyclist) Battalion, The Hampshire Regiment

reconstituted in the T.A. with HQ at Southampton

1920 disbanded

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Marc Thompson

Chris,

What do you need? I have the History of the Hampshire Territorial Force Assoc. 1914-1919 which includes about a dozen pages covering the Hants Cyclist Bns - includes list of officers as well as honours and mentions plus a potted history of the units.

Marc

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Chris_Baker

I just want to be able to paint a picture of the movements and activities of my soldier, so the potted history would be great. As far as I can tell, he served right through.

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Marc Thompson

Chris

1/9th Hants - Summary of Events 1914-1919:

30 July 1914 - Special Service Section called out for coast patrols.

5 August 1914 - Battalion mobilised and sent to war stations on coast.

8 August 1914 - Proceeded to Lincolnshire at all speed to protect East coast against possible German invasion.

October 1914 - Returned to South coast for coast duty.

November 1915 - Converted into infantry battalion (from cyclists), and ordered to mobilise at Chilseldon for service in East Africa. Afterwards changed to Egypt, then France and finally ordered to proceed to India.

4 February 1916 - Sailed from Devonport in the S.S. "Ceramic".

25 February 1916 - Landed at Bombay, and proceeded to Bangalore for training.

December 1916 - Ordered to proceed to North-West Frontier for Divisional training, on formation of new 16th Indian Division.

April 1917 - Mobilised for Waziristan Expedition, but did not proceed.

March 1918 - Ordered to Murree Hills (Himalayas). 7,000 feet; four days' march up from Rawal Pindi. Snow-bound on arrival. Stayed three weeks, and then ordered down again to the plains and sent to Ambala, with two companies at Kasauli.

October 1918 - Mobilised for Russia to join Canadian Expeditionary Force to Siberia (and a change in temperature from 116 degrees in the shade to 58 degrees below zero). Influenza raging at the time while preparations were being made for the journey.

29 October 1918 - Left Bombay, called at Ceylon, Straits Settlements and China. At one time there were over 300 sick on the boat, and the hospital accommodation held 12.

28 November 1918 - Landed at Vladivostock. Quartered in Russian Cavalry Barracks. Fitted out with Artic clothing as fast as possible, and 18 days after landing proceeded into the interior to Omsk, some 4,000 miles' journey alnog the Trans-Siberian Railway. Men in box trucks; 23 days in the train. Temperature between 20 and 30 below zero.

7 January 1919 - Arrived at Omsk (seat of Koltchak's Government) and stayed there all winter. Temperature reached 50 degrees below zero at times. Four thousand miles from base and depended upon Vladivostock for supplies and reinforcements.

April 1919 - Canadian troops evacuated by Canadian Government leaving 1/9th Hants and 25th Middlesex only British troops in Siberia.

May 1919 - Proceeded to Ekaterinburg (foot of Ural Mountains, and place where Russian Royal Family were murdered), but had to evacuate the town in August, owing to rapid advance of Bolshevik Armies. Proceeded to base to await embarkation for home.

1 November 1919 - Finally left on S.S. "Monteagle" for Vancover.

Last stage across the Atlantic was made in S.S. "Tunisian".

5 December 1919 - Battalion disembarked at Southampton after travelling about 45,000 miles and being overseas three years and nine months. On the same day the unit was disbanded.

19 Officers and 455 OR's mobilised as a Cyclist Bn

31 Officers and 1,003 OR's proceeded overseas as infantry bn.

Please let me know if you need any further info.

Regards

Marc

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Chris_Baker

Great stuff, Marc. Thank you very much.

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Guest Blackrod

Has any one any information on the Refugees that sailed with the 1st/9th Hampshire Regiment from Vladivostok to Vancouver on the “Monteagle” in November 1919. Did they travel on with the regiment to Southampton?

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sotonmate

Redlips

TUNISIAN arrived Southampton from Montreal on 5 December 1919. Passenger list is enclosed in file BT26/665/20 at the National Archives.

If you have names they can be searched on Ancestry UK under the "Canadian Passenger Lists-1865 to 1935".

Apologies Chris for diverting your thread.

Sotonmate

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Guest Blackrod

Sotonmate

Thanks for the reply. I have searched the passenger list for the Tunisin and there was no indication of any passengers apart from the regiment.

I have documentation of my father and grandmother entering Vancouver from the Monteagle, and being in London on the 19th December 1919. I have also checked other possible sailings within the date window.

I was hoping that there may be some regimental information on the journey across Canada or the sailing to Southampton which give me a clue.

I also have a photo of a Corporal Alex Dove who may have been in the Regiment, I think his number is T4/246550. It is signed and dated Vladivostok 17-10-1919.

If this is of interest I can send you a copy.

Redlips

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Chris_Baker

Apologies Chris for diverting your thread.

Sotonmate

Yes, it is a terrible thing to divert an 8 year old thread! :lol: I am glad to see more information being added after all this time.

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sotonmate

Redlips

The number for Corporal Dove is for the Army Service Corps,perhaps part of the supply chain for the 1/9 Hampshires.

From Redface (not having noticed the year of the start of this thread !)

Sotonmate

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Alan24

Chaps,

I belive this pic of my Grandfather's half-brother (same Father) may be of the 9th Btn Hampshires.

Pte. RH Payne. [Edit: I now believe this should be Pte. William Harold Payne (or Paine)]

Born Bournmouth (I think it was in Hampshire then!) 1884, living in Stockbridge when he enlisted at Romsey.

Can't find any number for him or any other info. If anyone has him in a data base would be most interested to see what you may have.

Can anyone date this pic from the uniform?

Regards

Alan.post-102890-0-19707000-1396293697_thumb.

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Guest Ian Dick

Hi - I'm late joining the party, but I'm very interested in what happened to the 1/9th Royal Hampshire (Cyclist) battalion in its Siberian adventure because my late Great Uncle - Hamilton Howgrave-Graham was there! His obituary in the Times reads:

"He was commissioned as Captain in the 1/9 Hampshire Regiment (T). After some time in India, his battalion was sent in 1918 to Siberia in an attempt to help White Russian resistance to the revolution. With scanty communications and little information as to what was happening elsewhere in Russia, this small force travelled across Siberia to the Ural Mountains. In the course of this Howgrave-Graham and 20 men were cut off by the Red army. They escaped in commandeered sledges across the snow-covered steppes and eventually rejoined their battalion at Omsk with no serious casualties. In the spring of 1919 an Anglo-Russian Brigade of 5,000 Siberian peasants was raised and of this force Howgrave-Graham was brigade major. Incidentally, he became one of the few Englishmen ever admitted to the Community of Cossacks as an Essaoul (captain). However, the rapid advance of the Red Army from European Russia soon led to the abandonment, probably just in time, of the whole venture, and after a long and perilous journey, the Hampshire battalion managed to get through to Vladivostok where they embarked for England."

Sounds like a helluva story which not many people see to know about. I'm very keen to find out more about this epic campaign, which seems to have been forgotten, because it has the makings of a tremendous story. I have many happy memories of "Unc", but he and my family never mentioned this. Incredible!! Any help to flesh out these bones would be most appreciated. Regards, Ian Dick late group captain RAF

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Honora

Dear Chris and Marc

re ID 12

Just to say that I found this thread interesting.

 

Thank you Marc for the notes on the 1/9 Hampshire Regiment -  may I use them (with due reference to you) to illuminate the following man? I have very little else on him, - no service record - only basic census details, showing he was born  (1897) and brought up in Somerset:, the son of a carpenter:

 

BABER, Maurice,  Private 0811, 203856, 1st/9th (TF) Battalion Hampshire Regiment, formerly Somerset Light Infantry, died  21 October 1918, aged 21, buried Plot 35, Row E, Grave 14, Ambala Cantonment Cemetery, India, situated about 200 km from Delhi, using the Grand Trunk Road.

 

Many thanks

 

Honora

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Marc Thompson

Hi Honora,

 

Reference 0811 Private Maurice BABER

 

SDGW information confirms:

Born and resident West Harptree, Somerset

Enlisted Bath

 

Died 21 October 1918 most likely from influenza

Buried Plot 35. Row E. Grave 14 . Ambala Cantonment Cemetery and Commemorated Kirkee 1914-1918 Memorial

 

Awarded British War Medal only so did not enter a Theatre of War to qualify for the Victory Medal

formerly Private 203856 1/4th Somerset Light Infantry

Transferred to 1/9th Hampshire and renumbered 0811 on or around 27 September 1918 (Battalion had been stationed at Ambala since about April 1918) so wasn't with the Hampshire's very long at all. 

 

Free free to use the notes in this thread.

 

Thanks

Marc

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Honora

Hi Marc

 

Many thanks for the prompt reply and apologies for my delay in answering (life has a habit of getting in the way of research!)

 

Thanks for the permission to use your notes and for the confirmation of my deductions. He has a 6 figure SLI number and then a 4 figure Hampshire Reg number. Am I then right in assuming the rolling out the new numbers took time, and 'different time' in the various regiments and perhaps those in India took a  perhaps longer time?

 

I thought perhaps he may have been a very short time with the Hampshires and perhaps influenza had taken him. He is also 'my first soldier' with a British and not a War Medal'.  As an aside it is perhaps understandable why a few old soldiers might have looked ... how shall I put it? ... on the multitude of medals available in subsequent conflicts?

 

Thanks

Honora

Edited by Honora

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Dever Mayfly

Dear Chris and Marc,

 

As we get nearer to the anniversary of the Russian intervention, I am sure this thread will become very active! I live in a small villageclose to the Test and our church has the name of one Hampshire Cyclist on our roll of honour, but he died before the battalion sailed to india.  Our local RBL captain knew his sister and she said that he died from an infected foot after it was crushed by a horse!  For my part, I am trying to track two 1st/9th Hampshire soldiers in a party which was abandoned in Siberia; Sergeant George Lillington and Private James.  I have a photograph of them, but I am not sure why they were left behind in Omsk in November 1919 when the Battalion had sailed to Canada on the 1st.  Do you have anything on them by any chance?

 

 

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Mark Robinson

For Ian Dick,

My father served as a subaltern in Maurice Howgrave-Graham's company and they remained friends after the war. I have a number of photographs that father took in !ndia and Siberia which may well include Maurice. I am afraid that, although he was my godfather, I can't rememberever meeting him. As well as a copy of Light and Shade I inherited a carpet runner which was passed on to father after Maurice's death and which evidently had some significance for them. In the notes at the end of Peter Fleming's account of the campaign  'The fate of Admiral Kolchak'  there are a number of references to Captain Howgrave-Graham's diary. I would very much like to read the diary if you have any idea where it may be. I know that the regimental museum were not aware of its existence. 

Mark Robinson, formerly Captain, RA.

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sotonmate

Mark

 

Ian hasn't been on the Forum since he last posted in Feb 2016 !

If you click on his title to the left of his post you can send him a meessage which,as well as appearing here in the Private section, may appear on his PC as an e-mail reminder, mine does !

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Carol Hayward

For Mark

 

My Grandfather was with the Hampshire Cycle Battalion.  His name was George Clarke dob June or July 1895.  He had a photo of one of their cycle displays where they performed a pyramid whilst cycling and he was the one on top (he was only about 5' 3" or 5' 4" tall and very slim). 

 

We don't know why they were sent to India but he told my Gran they were sent to Russia to help protect the Royal Family, which might explain why they went to Ekaterinburg.  Nobody at the time knew what had happened to the Royal Family.  They were murdered on 17 July 1918.  In Helen Rappaport's book "Ekaterinburg, Last Days of the Romanovs" she said that after the Tsar abdicated the many photographs of him with his family seemed to indicate he didn't appreciate the danger he was in.  Perhaps he thought he was going to be evacuated to Britain.  They all spoke fluent English having an English teacher and had visited Osborne House on the Isle of Wight.

 

Does anyone else know anything about this? 

 

My Grandfather didn't really speak about the war much except for the fact he loved India and painted watercolour and Indian ink (when he ran out of paint) pictures of India and loved the Russians he met.  They were sent straight from India in their Khakis and when he landed within minutes a Russian rubbed a handful of snow on his nose to stop him from getting frost bite. We used to play with the Soviet flag he was given and run round the garden with it.

 

I'd love to receive any more information, photos etc and is the History of the Hampshire Territorial Force Assoc. 1914-1919 still available.  I will try to find the photo of Gramp on the top of the pyramid.

 

I also like to know how I can find out about his medals.  Did they see much fighting and how bad was it?  Out of the men who left, how many returned?

 

Sorry to ramble on so much.  Any info will be much appreciated.

Carol

 

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sotonmate

Carol

 

Welcome to the Forum !
A War Diary exists but is not yet of sufficient priority to be digitised ! A visit to Kew Archives would get you:

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C4558585

which has info about the Russian excursion.

I found one Medal Index Card conferring the British War and Victory Medals to a George CLARK 1278 Hampshire Regiment and later re-numbered in the 1917 series for 1/9 (Cyclists) Battalion to 355850.

Edited by sotonmate

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Carol Hayward

For Sotonmate and Marc Thompson

 

Thank you Sotonmate, that was quick.  I actually meant to address my query to Marc Thompson because he seemed to know the most but the link you gave me is very helpful.  I will order the file and go to Kew to read it.  Interestingly two pages from the original file have been removed and the file renumbered. 

 

I spelt the name wrong it is CLARK without an E.  I do remember him saying that when they got to Canada they were offered £100 and a plot of land if they wanted to stay.  They took the Northwest Passage which must by why they ended up at Vancouver.

Carol

 

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kenf48
3 hours ago, Carol Hayward said:

For Sotonmate and Marc Thompson

 

Thank you Sotonmate, that was quick.  I actually meant to address my query to Marc Thompson because he seemed to know the most but the link you gave me is very helpful.  I will order the file and go to Kew to read it.  Interestingly two pages from the original file have been removed and the file renumbered. 

 

I spelt the name wrong it is CLARK without an E.  I do remember him saying that when they got to Canada they were offered £100 and a plot of land if they wanted to stay.  They took the Northwest Passage which must by why they ended up at Vancouver.

Carol

 

 

There has been a lot of interest recently in the Russian Campaign and it was discussed at some length on this thread

including forum pal Damien Wright's recent book and on this thread he offers to share his research

There was also a recent Radio 4 programme on the campaign which drew on the IWM Oral History

 

As to why they were sent to India, when war was declared Regular Army units stationed on garrison duty in India were recalled to fight in France and later Gallipoli.  They were replaced by units of the Territorial Force.  Apart from some activity on the NW Frontier their duties were much the same as they were Bothe before and after the war.  Long periods in military cantonments, heat and disease with lots of sport and the occasional respite in the hill stations.

 

Ken

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