William Jenkins...one for Terry Denham

[bruce]

William Jenkins was born in Ainsdale, whose war memorial I am researching. In 1916, he was a mechanician aboard HMS Warrior. The warrior was one of the first ships struck during the Battle of Jutland, a shell blowing one of the boilers, and badly scalding Jenkins. Staying at his post, he was further wounded by more hits on the ship. Reduced to a powerless hulk, it was taken in tow my the seaplane tender, Engardine, with a view to towing it to Scotland. It was soon apparent that the Warrior wouldn't make it. The crew were taken off, although the ship's captain, a Clark in Holy Orders (how many of them commanded ships in the Royal navy?), returned to rescue the ship's communion silver. he subsequently presented it to the Admiralty, who returned it to him, and he then gave it to the next ship to bear the name Warrior.

Jenkins was taken by destroyer to Edinburggh, but died of his wounds and is now buried in Dalmeny and Queensferry Cemetery.

He is buried in a triple grave, along with two men from another ship.

Here comes the question.

Since the cemetery contains a number of the standard CWGC headstones, why are these three men buried in a triple grave? I know that there are examples of men buried three deep ( as at heilly Station, with its unique loggia), but why do so in dalmeny when there was space to bury them separately?

I am sure there is a sensible answer, but I can't think of it!

Bruce

[wulsten]

You could email the enquiry dept at the CWGC and ask the reason for this type of burial if you get no leads from the forum.

[j.r.f]

BRUCE

Could it be that the bodies,when found,were not able to be discriminated as individuals,but it was known who the three were.This is just a posible suggestion.

CHEERS.JOHN

[Terry Denham]

As the men were buried in the UK, it was the next of kin (if any) who decided the burial arrangements.

If the NoK of these men (if any existed) could not afford to bury them seperately and they were buried at public expense, then the local authority may well have buried them together in a common grave to save local taxpayers' the expense of separate graves.

This is not unusual in the UK.

[bruce]

As the men were buried in the UK, it was the next of kin (if any) who decided the burial arrangements.

If the NoK of these men (if any existed) could not afford to bury them seperately and they were buried at public expense, then the local authority may well have buried them together in a common grave to save local taxpayers' the expense of separate graves.

This is not unusual in the UK.

Dear terry,

It doesn'y take much to confuse a bear with small brain like me, but I am confused.

If a serviceman was killed during the war on foreign soil, then his grave would be marked in a cemetery by a CWGC headstone.

Jenkins died from wounds received whilst on (very) active service. He happened to die, not in a base hospital in France or at a CCS in Belgium, but in a hospital in Scotland, after the Battle of Jutland.

Are you saying that, just because he happened to die in the UK then the cost of his burial was borne by his next of kin? Why did he not qualify for a CWGC headstone? His family could not have been that impoverished, for they could afford to pay the extra 3 1/2 pence per letter for a family inscription at the bottom of the triple headstone. There are other standard Portland stone CWGC headstones in the same cemetery, so I still can't see why three men, from different ships, whose identity was known, why died complete, with known graves, should have a non-standard triple headstone?

I would include photos, except that the site keeps telling me that the jpegs are too big and I haven't a clue how to reduce them! (a bear of very small brain..)

Any further enlightenment would be appreciated.

Bruce

[Terry Denham]

Bruce

Men who died in the UK (or other home country) had different treatment to those that died abroad.

The relatives could choose to bury their kin wherever they wished - but they had to pay for the cost of transport from place of death to their chosen cemetery - otherwise they were buried at military expense as near as possible to the place of death. That is why many men lie buried far from their home towns within the UK. Their relatives either could not afford or did not wish to transport them home - or there were no traceable relatives. I am sure also that, with the slow communications of the day, many men had to be buried for hygiene reasons before relatives could be traced to have a say!

The second special concession allowed the UK deaths was that the relatives could choose to have a CWGC headstone or erect a private one - or have none at all. The difference being that CWGC is not responsible for maintenance of any private stone so selected.

You also have to remember the timescales. Men who died from 04.08.14 onwards became entitled to an official war grave once such a concept was invented. CWGC was not formed until early 1917 and the official headstone did not become available until 1920. Many men by then already had a private headstone - including some overseas (later most of these foreign ones were replaced by agreement with NoK).

Also, initially CWGC was not going to be responsible for naval graves or, indeed, any within the UK. These were added to their responsibilities later. In the UK, CWGC inherited a situation and usually had no hand in burials. These had already happened in most cases when they took over the UK.

Having two or three men in the same grave in not unusual in the UK - even from different dates of death. As I said this is usually due to them being buried in common graves at the expense of the parish/local council or there being little room in plots allocated for service burials. I have such cases in a local cemetery here in Sussex. Your three men in grave no. 633 are all Jutland battle deaths with Jenkins dying a few days later and two of them at least seem to originate far from where they are buried. Jenkins was probably added to the grave just after his companions in order to keep naval men together and to save space/money.

These graves were almost certainly unmarked and provided by the local authorities. When CWGC headstones became available, the NoK were offered an official stone - as were all relatives. From what you say about the grave having an official stone, it looks like two sets of NoK asked for a CWGC stone and no reply was received from the third as their Final Verification Form was not returned.

The fact that there is a Personal Inscription on the headstone does not necessarily mean that the relatives could afford it. Payment for such inscription was not 'chased' if unpaid and later it became voluntary - and so they may not have had to pay. Even if they did pay, the cost of the inscription would have been far less that the cost of transporting and burying their kin elsewhere.

[bruce]

Dear Terry,

Wow!

I sit in awe of your knowledge!

Thanks for taking the time to explain this so thoroughly. I now understand.

I am really grateful to you....from a bear with small brain!

Regards

Bruce