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The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Remembered Today:

which county


Fred W

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"When was Scotland a mere county? Look up any kind of business directory, catalogue, online form etc, it usually asks for county - you get a list of all the english counties, then you get Scotland, Northern Ireland, and Wales chucked in for good measure."

I can see what you mean as many English countys had populations larger than Scotland.

"Of course if we are talking countries, Australia would knock them all over per head of population"

Any idea what percentage that was in relation to population.

Regards Charles

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I don't know whether, or not, you are implying Scotland is a county on its own. If you are I don't agree. Have a look at Scottish Counties on Google to see the whole list.

Fred

Sorry Fred, that was my poor attempt at irony and sarcasm :D

I'm well aware that Scotland is a nation - a nation I'm proud to belong to. All I meant was that it often feels as if Scotland is considered a county of England.

Barrie

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Sorry Fred, that was my poor attempt at irony and sarcasm :D

I'm well aware that Scotland is a nation - a nation I'm proud to belong to. All I meant was that it often feels as if Scotland is considered a county of England.

Barrie

Hello Barrie,

I don't know of anybody who considers Scotland to be anything other than a country, and one to be proud of. Some doughty warriors have come from Scotland, and some of the best regiments.

Fred

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At the risk of further enflaming the views of my various Commonwealth cousins (and how many estaminet brawls began with similar discussions I wonder?!??), I would tentatively suggest a drawing back to the original question? Scotland, Ireland and Wales had, as they continue to have, constituent counties, but with smaller populations, and thus a more heightened sense of being part of their own distinct 'national' brotherhoods, regiments tended to be organised on a more 'regional' basis; correct me if I'm wrong, but, for example, in the Highlands these may have followed variously loose or binding regional ties of clanship, often with linguistic, religious and cultural implications. In England, more densely populated and, arguably, more vehemently sub-regionalised in terms of internal rivalries and cultures, it made sense to organise regiments and recruiting procedures on a county basis; hence, comparisons and references to the erstwhile troops of Ireland, Wales and Scotland are perhaps irrelevant to the original thread?

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Which County was the question, I will go with Lancashire at 200 battalions that’s a lot of men, what say 280,000 working on a 40% casualty and relief rate (not sure if that’s correct). How does that equate to the other Country’s manpower commitment. I have read a lot of contemporary accounts and wonder if the English did take any part that merited mention.

Regards Charles

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The original question has been clearly answered by Steven by consulting James's book. I'm not sure however that Joseph/Charles is right about casualties as many of these battalions, such as reserve, labour, garrison and dock, did not go overseas.

Nevertheless this is a fascinating topic and I'd like to add a few notes and queries.

In 1914 there were 69 regular infantry regiments. 48 English, 10 Scottish, 8 Irish and 3 Welsh. These were divided into 50 'line' regiments, 9 fusiliers, 7 LI and 3 rifles.

Lancashire with 7 regiments was undoubtedly the largest, followed by Yorkshire with 6

(I am grateful for the info about the Y&L - I thought it was a "joint" regt - so I've now listed it as Yorks)

But there remain 3 regiments that were of 2 counties; Border (Cumb & Westm), Ox & Bucks, and Notts & Derby.

Then we can add the territorial regiments of the minor counties; Monmouthshire, Cambridge, Herts and Herefordshire (1 W, 3 Eng). If we stretch a point we could even add the Hunts Cyc Bn.

Before 1974 there were 39 counties in England so that leaves, by my calculation, Rutland as the only English county with no unit of its own. Did it have a T unit ??

The 2 Eng rifle regts KRRC and RB did not, I think, have any county affiliation.

Was "London" a county at this time ??

Where does the HAC fit in, again London based.

As for other areas I'd love to know more.

For Wales I've always understood that the RWF was associated / drawn from the counties of Denbighsh, Flintsh, Carnarvonsh & Anglesey.

SWB - Breconshire

Welsh Rgt - Carmarthenshire, Pembrokesh. Glamorgansh.

(and Monmouthshire Rgt)

Ireland even more widespread: RIR - Kilkenny (Leinster)

RInn Fus - not sure exactly which county but western Ulster certainly

RIRif - Armagh, Cavan (the latter being one of the Ulster counties that did not secede in 1922)

Connaught R - C obviously, I think co was Galway

Leinst Rgt - not sure which counties in L.

Roy Mun Fus - counties Cork & Limerick I think

Roy Dub Fus - in L, but was D a co of its own ??.

As for Scotland, I only have a vague idea and would love a definitive list as to which regts were assoc with / came from etc. which counties.

Julian

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That wasnt the question, the question was just which county. If we assumming the question was the counties in existance in 1914-18 then it will even harder to answer.

This is a Great War Forum, so i assume all questions/ topics assume the situation as in 1914-1918 unless they specially say different.

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Was "London" a county at this time ??

Where does the HAC fit in, again London based.

"London City is a County in itself and is divided into Wards whose boundaries do not coincide with those of the parishes in the City. In 1889 the Administrative County of London was formed from the City of London, and parts of Middlesex, Kent and Surrey and was divided into boroughs. In 1963 this County was replaced by Greater London which also took in the rest of Middlesex and parts of Essex and Herts as well as some county boroughs. New London boroughs were then formed." [T.V.H. FitzHugh, The Dictionary of Genealogy, 1994.] Sourced from GENUKI.org.uk.

The Administrative County of London was also known as Metropolitan London. The local affiliation battalions of the London Regiment reflect the boroughs then in London.

As this thread seems to be purely infantry the HAC artillery company would have to be left off the list.

Just a bit of trivia, at the time of WW1 London was already divided into the current main post codes (W1, SE16 etc).

Lancashire seems to be the 'winner,' does anyone know the casualty rate/ size of the individual regiments?

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The original question has been clearly answered by Steven by consulting James's book.

Where does the HAC fit in, again London based.

Julian

Thanks, Julian :) - we seemed to be getting away from the original question!

HAC was London-based, but wasn't part of the London regiment - it refused to accept the number allocate (26th Bn), so stayed as a separate entity.

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Thanks for that Charles...Ive added Y&L to my must study list. (its a long list!!)

When I first started researching men in South Yorkshire, parts of Doncaster specifically, it took me a year to discover that the absent voters lists were situated in Wakefield., the kindly libriarian did attempt to explain why, but after the first hour i decided I had a life to lead.

Mick

Hi mick

Don t know if you know but the absentee list for wakefield is online on http://www.wakefieldfhs.org.uk/abscent%20voters.htm its only partly finished though.

regards martin

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. All I meant was that it often feels as if Scotland is considered a county of England.

Barrie

Yes.

Roland. :D

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