Memorials including those who served

[Guest Simon Bull]

Do any Pals know of particular memorials that list those who served as well as those who died? I imagine that there are many examples of this.

I know of 2. The first is at Castle Ashby in Northamptonshire, and lists 4 who were killed, 7 who were wounded (although how they precisely defined wounded I cannot imagine) and a further 24 who served and survived (relatively!) unscathed. At the other end of the country, Pity Me, a village in County Durham, has a memorial listing a total of 22 dead and 93 who served and survived.

I am interested in other similar examples.

Simon Bull

[jim_davies]

Simon,

Off hand I can think of two;

St John's Church, Stamford, Lincs. If I remember correctly the lads of the parish who served are all listed, with a + (that's supposed to be a cross) by those who fell. I should be able to get a photo of this one if you need it.

Tinwell, Rutland. Think this one has "KIA" after the fallen, but can't quite remember. There is/was a website with a photo of this memorial and transcription.

Jim

[HERITAGE PLUS]

Langley Burrell (Wilts)has an illuminated Roll of Honour of all who served with an asterisk denoted those lost.

[Ian Underwood]

I know this question was related to UK memorials, but to the best of my knowledge, most early Australian memorial's listed those abroad as well as those who had fallen.

On these memorials those not coming home were listed with a cross as well, with a notation at the bottom of the list, (KIA, DOW etc). When the casualty lists started growing alarmingly circa 1916, this practice essentially stopped and later memorials only listed the fallen.

Thus when one comes across a memorial or honour board in an Australian country town or older suburb, you can 'date' it depending on whether it lists only the fallen or not.

ian.

[Myrtle]

There is a list of all those who served in WW1 in the Parish Church,Weobley in Herefordshire. There is also one in Llanwrthwl Church in Mid Wales. The names of those men who died are marked with a small cross.

[keith]

Tinwell has the names on the church gates WW1 on the front with Killed after the name if killed, and on the back WW2 with an + next to the name if killed.

Lyndon in Rutland has a wooden memorial with a list on, only the first named was killed.

Teigh has a brass memorial which has no names on but gives thank's to the 13 (11 men and 2 women ) who went to war and all came back.

A lot of the churches have a list with the names on and in a lot of cases the names of those killed are marked (Morcott gold cross next to the ones killed ) from both wars.

[Rob HAmilton]

Simon

Greetland Liberal Club, West Yorkshire has lists of those who died and served. Photo can be supplied if necessary.

Regards

Rob

[Clive Maier]

I have yet to see a memorial listing the survivors. It is a nice gesture and a recognition that the survivors paid a price, and often a heavy one. I find it surprising though. When people created a memorial, they were thinking of perpetuating the dead. At the time, I don’t feel they would have looked ahead to the day when the survivors – and they themselves – were also dead. So I can understand a separate panel commemorating the service of survivors, but a memorial that conflates the dead and the survivors seems rather a strange concept. I imagine it was done to remember the survivors without straining the finances much further. I would guess that these combined memorials would be more or less confined to small communities like parishes, clubs, companies, schools and villages. In larger communities, the sheer volume of names would have posed a problem in the gathering and a considerable cost in the engraving or casting.

[christine liava'a]

It probably depends too on what exactly the memorial is called;

"In memory of " which implies death, or something else

eg The Levuka Public School Great War Board, which lists all the pupils who went to the war, whether or not they died

[Charles Fair]

most early Australian memorial's listed those abroad as well as those who had fallen.

For an analysis of Australian war memorials, see Ken Inglis' superb book "Sacred Places". He has some good comparative comments wrt the UK, based on a study of something like 5,000 civic memorials in Australia. It is extremely common for Australian memorials to list all who served - I think about one third do so.

My unscientific study whilst down under suggests that most rolls of honour/honour boards list all who served, and it is common to find this inside the town hall or perhaps in a church. Where the honour board survived it may have mutated into a memorial, alternatively a memorial may have been built outdoors but just listing the dead. I have a feeling that if there is no honour board then the war memorial is more likely to list all who served.

A key point is that all Australian servicemen of WW1 were volunteers, and many communities therfore actively wanted to remember all those were prepared to risk their lives. (This is perhaps particularly true for those volunteers later on in the war who joined up in 1916-18 after the scale of casualties was becoming known). Such memorials also had a subtext that those not listed were 'shirkers'.

Inglis points out that some Australian memorials even list the 'rejects' i.e. those who were rejected for military service on grounds of poor health or small stature etc. and other groups like munitions workers so that they were tainted by suspicions of shirking.

The UK had conscription, so it would have been a reasonable assumption that all fit men of military age either saw service or were in reserved occupations.

[Will O'Brien]

I can think of a couple around the Milton Keynes area, Bow Brickhill & Whaddon Jubilee Hall Memorial.

Here's the Bow Brickhill memorial

[John_Hartley]

Several Cheshire memorials to those who served are listed at carlscam.com.

Allegedly, there's one in the area that was erected in 1914, with updated panels of those joining up added every few months. If any NorthWesterners have come across this story, do you know which memorial it is (my failing memory seems to think its in Tameside)?

[Neil Burns]

Hi All,

Most US monuments list all those who served. It's actually uncommon to find one that only lists those killed most likely due to the relatively low number of US losses in World War I.

Take care,

Neil

[Guest Simon Bull]

Thanks for all the replies. In relation to the two I have already found I have found it interesting to analyse the percentage of those who served who were killed. At Pity Me it is 19% and at Castle Ashby 11.4%.

Not sure what conclusion can be drawn form that, but it is interesting. presumably some areas were Pals Battalions suffered very badly would produce much higher percentages if the Memorials recorded those served and those killed.

[Greenwoodman]

There are three in the Sandbach Area, plus a couple of Rolls of Honour with indications of those died. Links below will take those interested to webpages with photos of the memorials

Arclid Methodist Plaque

Wheelock Methodist Church War Memorial

Sandbach Literary Institute Roll of Honour

[Ken Lees]

My son's primary school, in Ormskirk, Lancashire has a Roll of Honour listing 225 former pupils who served in the Great War. It lists some of those who died, but is incomplete in that regard, as many of those listed died but are not recorded as such.

Ken