Bob Coulson Posted 29 December , 2002 Share Posted 29 December , 2002 Would be very grateful if somebody could come up with any info on this gent. He is one of three "missing" men on my local war memorial who I can find no mention of on CWGC or SDCD-ROM. He did live in the village on a local farm, so I have his family details but nothing else. His unit is given on the memorial as 4th Battn Yorkshire Regiment although I have come across quite a few errors with units as I have worked my way through the names. Any info would as always be gratefully recieved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Lynott Posted 29 December , 2002 Share Posted 29 December , 2002 Is it Capt John SEARGINSON 4th Bn Yorks Reg KIA 10/11/16 recorded on a special memorial at Warlencourt British Cemetery? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Coulson Posted 30 December , 2002 Author Share Posted 30 December , 2002 Kevin, I tried a few variations on the spelling of the name but not "Searginson". Certainly seems to fit in apart from the spelling variation - my census records show it as "Serginson" Do you or any other forum members have any details on the special memorial at Warlencourt?? Many thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Baker Posted 30 December , 2002 Share Posted 30 December , 2002 Terry Denham - our one-man Commonwealth War Graves Commission - may be able to help us out here. I suspect that it is one of the 'believed to be buried in this cemetry' or 'known to have been buried in X cemetery' symbolic grave markers. CWGC refer to them as special memorials. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 30 December , 2002 Share Posted 30 December , 2002 Thanks for the accolade, Chris! Searginson does indeed have a CWGC Special Memorial (In fact, SP.9). In Warlencourt British Cemetery these are used to commemorate 55 casualties whose graves are believed to be in the cemetery but which now cannot be found and for 15 casualties buried in Hexham Road Cemetery whose graves were destroyed by shell fire. The superscription on the headstone will denote which of these groups he falls into. The former will say something like 'Believed to be buried in this cemetery' and the latter will say 'Buried in Hexham Road Cemetery'. PS. What's happened to the timing on the Forum. I posted this at 20.43 but the site shows 19.43!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff. Hobson Posted 30 December , 2002 Share Posted 30 December , 2002 A bit off the original theme but when I was seeking information re. C.S.M. John Watson M.M. I found he was Commemorated/Buried at Warlencourt Britsh Cemetery. ( Sp. Mem. 35. ?) and wondered what this signified. Cliff. Hobson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 30 December , 2002 Share Posted 30 December , 2002 Cliff 'Special Memorial' is the CWGC term for a special commemoration headstone used on occasions when the actual grave is unmarkable or unmaintainable for a number of reasons - 1) The grave is in the cemetery or believed to be in the cemetery but its exact location is unknown. 2) The grave is known to have been elsewhere (ie a cleared cemetery) but could not be found upon clearance. 3) The grave was elsewhere but known to have been destroyed by subsequent shelling/bombing. 4) The location of the grave is known to be in a certain cemetery but can no longer be maintained for numerous reasons (geographical/political/economic) and is therefore commemorated in an alternative location. This happens in the UK when a cemetery is closed or redeveloped and abroad when the location is remote (ie some parts of Africa & the North West Frontier of India/Pakistan). This is usually called an 'Alternative Commemoration'. 5) Mass grave burials. The 'Special Memorial' headstone is usually the standard CWGC pattern but with a superscription giving some idea of the reason for the alternative memorial - - Believed to be/Known to be buried in this cemetery/churchyard/chapelyard - Buried near this spot - Buried near this churchyard - Buried in 'xyz' cemetery/churchyard/chapelyard etc, etc CWGC regard a Special Memorial or an Alternative Commemoration as being the actual place of commemoration rather than the true burial location. Therefore the casualty will be listed for statistical purposes (and in the now defunct cemetery registers) as being in the memorial location - not in the original burial place. On a few occasions this can even be in a different country! 'Alternative Commemorations' can also consist of names carved on a screen wall in a cemetery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff. Hobson Posted 31 December , 2002 Share Posted 31 December , 2002 Terry, Re. Sp. Mem. thank you indeed for a very full and informative explanation. Cliff. Hobson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Coulson Posted 1 January , 2003 Author Share Posted 1 January , 2003 Yes, thanks to all contributors for some very informative help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest barbaraford Posted 14 November , 2005 Share Posted 14 November , 2005 Hello I happened to scroll past this site as I am looking for a John Serginson, my nanna was a Serginson and they originated from the York area, coming to Middlesbrough in the early 1900's. I was told as a child that my fathers Uncle had his name on the memorial at Eston, but I do not know any more, Do you have any more information ?? Many Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Coulson Posted 14 November , 2005 Author Share Posted 14 November , 2005 An old post of mine this but regarding Captain John Serginson he was killed in action towards the close of the Somme offensive on November 10th 1916 in the 4th Yorkshires attack on the Butte de Warlencourt and is buried in Warlencourt British Cemetery. He is remembered on two local memorials, the one in Eston as you mention and also the one in nearby Normanby. His parents were Charles and Mary Ann Serginson of West Farm in Normanby. Bob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest barbaraford Posted 14 November , 2005 Share Posted 14 November , 2005 An old post of mine this but regarding Captain John Serginson he was killed in action towards the close of the Somme offensive on November 10th 1916 in the 4th Yorkshires attack on the Butte de Warlencourt and is buried in Warlencourt British Cemetery. He is remembered on two local memorials, the one in Eston as you mention and also the one in nearby Normanby. His parents were Charles and Mary Ann Serginson of West Farm in Normanby. Bob. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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