Niederzwheren Cemetery Cassel

[chaz]

while checking through a query for another pal, I came across Niederzwheren cemetery. Its listed under another web site as being Prisoner of war cemetery.

As one of my great uncles is burried there 28th October 1918, I was then made to think... was he a POW or did he actually make it to Germany?

anyone shed light?

[Coldstreamer]

whats his name , regiment etc

[chaz]

whats his name , regiment etc

Pte Fred Gleed, 19089 2nd Btn Wilts Regt. Enlisted Devizes, and in plot 3 Row E Grave 3. so Im led to believe.

[Bob Coulson]

He wouldn't have made it to Germany in October 1918, I reckon a POW.

Bob.

[Owen D]

SDGW

Gleed, Fred

enlisted Devizes.

Living Malmesbury.

19089

Pte.died, F&F 28/10/18.

Can't access CWGC but I'd say POW too. Bn no where near Germany.

War Diary for that day.

2nd Wiltshire Monday 28th October 1918 France, Rieux

Company and platoon training in morning and usual classes. In the afternoon Battalion paraded for a demonstration to illustrate different heights of a flying aeroplane commenced at 1415 hours.

Arthur Hall number 19590 KIA 19/10/16.

So someone with a higher Regtl Number was in France back in 1916, so most likely Gleed there too and taken Prisoner.

Also H Abrams 19041 KIA 3/12/17.

The cemetery was a centralised cemtery for POW. Googled it as CWGC still down.

[Owen D]

Some excellent photos here on this German site.

http://www.peter-roos.de/militaer/Kriegsgr...w_cemetery.html

[chaz]

this is whats confusing if he died F&F why burried in Central Germany ? next question... is there a web site for German POW camps for WW1!

[Owen D]

SDGW says F&F, doesn't mean it was.

Errors occur.

I only put that in as that's what the book says.

I came across another POW once and it said same for him.

PS He is NOT on the Malmesbury War Memorial.

http://www.malmesbury-memories.co.uk/localheroesindex1.html

[chaz]

Owen , hes on the Hankerton Lytch gate which is my avatar, bottom name. one brother above and one further up.

[Owen D]

chaz , my avatar's sister lives nearby at Crudwell.

[chaz]

this is where confusion reigns, there were also Gleed's in Crudwell, when I checked previous births/ deaths and marriages along with census returns it seems that they swapped houses regularly.

[Terry Denham]

SDGW often says F&F for men who died in France and Belgium or Germany as POWs and even the UK (those wounded in F&F but brought home and died in UK)!

[Doug Johnson]

Chaz,

When the CWGC site is up and running, the cemetery details will state the names of the PoW camps which were concentrated into this one. That will narrow the number of camps down but will not say exactly which one. CWGC may have records that could tie it down to one camp. Once we know which camp, there are several sites that might provide information, including this one.

If contacting the CWGC fails than the RED Cross may be the only way forward and for the next few years the only way to get access is to pay a researcher.

Doug

[Owen D]

From CWGC site.http://195.99.1.128/search/cemetery_detail...1502&mode=1

The cemetery was begun by the Germans in 1915 for the burial of prisoners of war who died at the local camp. During the war almost 3,000 Allied soldiers and civilians, including French, Russian and Commonweath, were buried there In 1922-23 it was decided that the graves of Commonwealth servicemen who had died all over Germany should be brought together into four permanent cemeteries. Niederzwehren was one of those chosen and in the following four years, more than 1,500 graves were brought into the cemetery from 190 burial grounds in Baden, Bavaria, Hanover, Hesse and Saxony. There are now 1,796 First World War servicemen buried or commemorated in the Commonwealth plot at Niederzwehren. This total includes special memorials to 13 casualties buried in other cemeteries in Germany whose graves could not be found. The following cemeteries are among those from which graves were brought to Niederzwehren: BAYREUTH TOWN CEMETERY, Bavaria. 24 burials of 1918. DARMSTADT FOREST CEMETERY, Hesse. In use from 1915. 102 burials. DIETKIRCHEN PRISONERS OF WAR CEMETERY, Hesse-Nassau. 45 burials (28 of Irish regiments) of 1914-18. FREIBURG IN BREISGAU MAIN CEMETERY, Baden, 43 burials of 1918. GERMERSHEIM CEMETERY, Palatinate. 26 burials of 1915-1918. GIESSEN MILITARY CEMETERY, Hesse. 99 burials of 1914-1919. GOTTINGEN MILITARY CEMETERY, Hanover. 88 burials of 1914-1919. HAMELN PRISONERS OF WAR CEMETERY, Hanover. 70 burials of 1915-1918. INGOLSTADT CEMETERY, Bavaria. 23 burials of 1917-1918. LANGENSALZA PRISONERS OF WAR CEMETERIES No. 1 and No. 2, Prussian Saxony. 225 burials of 1915-1918. MAINZ MILITARY CEMETERY, Rhein-Hessen. 23 burials of 1915-1919. MANNHEIM MAIN CEMETERY, Baden. 21 burials of 1916-1918. MESCHEDE PRISONERS OF WAR CEMETERY, Westphalia. 49 burials of 1917-1918. OHRDRUF PRISONERS OF WAR CEMETERY, Thuringia. 107 burials of 1915-1918. PADERBORN CEMETERY, Westphalia. 29 soldiers burials of 1914-18. QUEDLINBURG CENTRAL CEMETERY, Prussian Saxony. 102 burials of 1914-1918. SENNELAGER PRISONERS OF WAR CEMETERY, Westphalia. 32 burials of 1914-1918.

[Doug Johnson]

If nothing else that got rid of some of the major camps. However 190 sites is still a lot and probably contains some sites associated with work camps etc.

Gottingen was home to several 2/Wiltshire men. (see the LLT list of PoW from WO161). The late date of death could make flu the cause. A check of SDGW may give a cause of death. The Red Cross enquiry lists may identify a date when he went missing. The IWM have a good set of these apparently. If a date can be identified then the WO161 reports may contain some of those who were captured at the same time. Depending on the date of capture there is a possibility that they all went to the same camp (assuming he was unwounded or only lightly wounded). The unit diaries would also give possible dates of capture that would help narrow it down.

Doug

[Owen D]

Doug

SDGW info as in post #5.

War Diaries make no mention.

I have them upstairs and can search them on-line.

No Gleed mentioned and it will be hard to pin down an event where men were captured.

[chaz]

Some excellent photos here on this German site.

http://www.peter-roos.de/militaer/Kriegsgr...w_cemetery.html

for anyone who needs to know, I looked at the website and decided to contact Peter Roos. despite being under pressure from his latest newborn arrival he has taken the time to photograph pictures of the grave and cemetery and surrounding area, for which I am very grateful.

As I explained to Peter, my grandfathers brother and family came from a farming area and its good to see he lays in a similar area.

Peter has also agreed it may be worth updating the web site to include English translation for the rest of the world, as he is getting othere interested people contact him.

[Owen D]

Top Man.

[chaz]

Top Man.

slight understatement, Ive today received extra pics from Peter, I now have 30 from him showing Fred's grave, surrounding graves, the cemetery and surrounding area.

I asked maybe for 1 or 2 ! He also tells me the cemetery is well maintained and in good condition.

As an aside Peter has been trying to trace his relations one uncle is buried in Latvia and another was lost in Russia both during WW2 , the second has no grave.

I suppose it must be hard for the Germans to ask these people for help.

anyway

will include a couple of pics, there are some other visible names.

freds is 3rd from left on the first complete row of stones

front left small corner.The Hon E F French RFA in German hands 13-11-18, next 2nd lt L W E Russel Leics regt died 14-11-18 , 2nd Lt F J E SpencerWilts POW 9-11-18.

Freds row, F Miller Artists rifles 17-07-18, next F G Lamberton Buffs 12-11-19, Fred Gleed Wilts , L Sullivan Lab corps KIA 15-4-18, R Gentleman RHA-RFA died 2-11-18.

[Owen D]

chaz

Find out where Peter's uncle is buried in Latvia.

I have a friend in Liepaja I could ask to try and do it.

Either that or put him onto this Forum, I know they have some Latvian members.

www.feldgrau.net

[chaz]

called in to see David at the Wardrobe today, updated situation on Fred Gleed...

He joined the batallion on 31-7-1915 with reinforcements from Havre, on 18-10-1916 A company posted him as missing believed wounded, for some reason they then mention him From Hospital on 27-10-1916, so seems to have been wounded.

Then on sdgw and records he is posted Died F & F 28-10-1918 burried at Niederzwehren.

As there are at least another 14 2nd Wilts soldiers Died F & F on records burried there I suppose these must now look as if they are exhumed burials then placed in the cemetery as their dates of death range from March 1915 to January 1919.

thoughts please