Guest dave1946 Posted 18 August , 2006 Share Posted 18 August , 2006 Silfred Yale was my father & was in the RRF (1914-1918) and later discharged with shrapnel wound. I know pretty much all there is from when he joined the RRF until he died in 1972. The mystery to myself & my brother is to do with pre 1914. On his enlistment papers he shows his next of kin as a brother - C.Yale, just initial for first name. This brother was in the Royal Field Artillery, BEF, 112 Batn.,25th.Divn.C.Battery. Unfortunately his service number was not given and we have checked the Medals roll at the national archive, found Silfred & 26 other Yales but nothing to match with the above. Dad is very much a mystery wrapped in an enigma to quote a cliche. He was born in 1893 in Wellington Shropshire and we are pretty sure he was born as William Henry Smith, as was noted on the bans for his first marriage!. It is the period from his birth for the first 20 or so years until he enlisted in 1914 that has stumped us for years! Believe me we have researched on Smith/Yale till we're almost sick of research. This post is just another desparate and possibly futile attempt to unwrap this mystery. If anyone can help directly or with suggestions we'd be the happiest brothers alive. Thanks for reading. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabine72 Posted 18 August , 2006 Share Posted 18 August , 2006 Dave, I wish I could help, but being in belgium, I can only think of the options we have in belgium. Parish registers, old newspapers. I don't know what you have to do to change your name in england, But wouldn't city hall have these documents? I know witch city hall and where? In belgium they have it and they even know if you moved to an other city, but if you need that info to find some one, you realy need a bit of luck here in belgium, since the private policy, they are not alowed to tell, but there are always people who are willing to help, maybe it's the same in england Or maybe thrying to find info on his parents could help I hope you will find answers on your questions. sabine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldstreamer Posted 18 August , 2006 Share Posted 18 August , 2006 if he was discharged , did he get a silver war badge ? If yes, have you these details ? The SWB rolls will tell you when he enlisted and where discharged Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dave1946 Posted 18 August , 2006 Share Posted 18 August , 2006 Thanks very much for your input, but in those days many people just changed their names without any notification to authorities. Also birth details weren't always recorded! thanks, Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dave1946 Posted 18 August , 2006 Share Posted 18 August , 2006 Thanks for reply coldstreamer, just contacted my brother and dads medals were the Victory Medal & the British War Medal. Can you advise where to find the SWB rolls please. Thanks very much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christine liava'a Posted 18 August , 2006 Share Posted 18 August , 2006 If both he and the brother were named Yale, was it their father who changed the family name from Smith? Or is it their mother's surname? What do you know about their parents? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dave1946 Posted 19 August , 2006 Share Posted 19 August , 2006 Hi christine, as far as we have discovered from several, yes several! marriages which Dad entered into, one bigamously!! all are documented with reference to his father as an Albert Yale and brother as C.Yale. there is no mention of him or any family other than what he supplied on various official papers. He only appears on his enlistment in 1914 (age22) as Yale and from then to his death in 1972. As far as tracing him via BMD records prior to 1914 there is no record of Silfred Yale. Such an uncommon name and we have tracked through Yales in all sorts of records with regard to the names of father, brother etc. but nowhere is there a record of Silfred prior to 1914. Regarding the Smith name which, as I mentioned was noted in the bans of one marriage, to quote "the man Yale is William Henry Smith" this in 1932 parish records pencilled in by the then vicar. He married a lady called Edith Shaw. presumably this name query arose with regard to the bigamy charge. We know in his pension years he had to quote the name Smith to the pensions people with regard to a query on his date of birth, so it would seem he himself did the name change. When and why being a big question. He was not someone you could ask about his past. We know his brother was a Yale as he wrote a letter to the father of Edith Shaw looking for Silfred and this was passed on to him as he had moved to London by then, so we have not seen this letter, only the reply to the brother WITHOUT an address!! frustrating or what! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baden1958 Posted 24 October , 2014 Share Posted 24 October , 2014 Hi Dave I did a Google search on Silfred Yale and came upon this GWF tread about him. The reason for my response is that I have just bought his Victory medal on Ebay. I buy medals to the Royal Fusiliers and thought this one had an unusual name. I see the tread ended in 2006 so wondered if you had found out anymore about him? Stephen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baden1958 Posted 27 March , 2018 Share Posted 27 March , 2018 Dave, if you ever return to this thread please contact me as I have further info on your father Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 13 April , 2018 Share Posted 13 April , 2018 Hi Baden Dave (above) is my cousin, though it is some years since I heard from him. I have been poking around in the more interesting corners of my family tree, and have compiled quite a lot of info about Sife Yale (known to me as Uncle Syd) from what I have heard from David and his (half) brother Syd Junior, as well as my own research. It is interesting to know that the Victory medal survives. If you have any relevant information, I would be pleased to hear. (I have seen the Service records available on Findmypast.co.uk.) When I have got a little bit further, I am planning to renew contact with David and Syd and share what I have. Regards Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jem1988 Posted 8 November , 2023 Share Posted 8 November , 2023 On 27/03/2018 at 12:42, baden1958 said: Dave, if you ever return to this thread please contact me as I have further info on your father Hi There I am a descendant of Silfred Yale. Am I able to make contact with you regarding the medal? Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Michelle Young Posted 8 November , 2023 Admin Share Posted 8 November , 2023 Welcome to the forum. @baden1958 hasn’t visited the forum since 2018. My tag may or may not alert them to your post. dave1946 is no longer a member, as denoted by Guest prefix. We won’t hold any contact information for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock1418 Posted 8 November , 2023 Share Posted 8 November , 2023 (edited) There are a series of pension records at WFA/Fold3 for a Silfred YALE, 179986, Labour Corps and previously [unknown unit] 4383, 47459 Disability pension: Discharged 11.3.19 claimed for a GSW Shoulder Address: 78 Piccadilly, Kingsbury, Warwick Grant by Military Serviuce (Civil Liabilities): Watch & Clock Repairing business Address: 335 Corporation Cottages, Holbrook Lane, Coventry There seems to be a MIC https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_q=yale+silfred - Royal Fusiliers, 4383, and LC, 197786 [Ancestry have indexed as Gilfred YALE] Your man?? M Edited 8 November , 2023 by Matlock1418 add MIC details Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jem1988 Posted 8 November , 2023 Share Posted 8 November , 2023 1 hour ago, Matlock1418 said: There are a series of pension records at WFA/Fold3 for a Silfred YALE, 179986, Labour Corps and previously [unknown unit] 4383, 47459 Disability pension: Discharged 11.3.19 claimed for a GSW Shoulder Address: 78 Piccadilly, Kingsbury, Warwick Grant by Military Serviuce (Civil Liabilities): Watch & Clock Repairing business Address: 335 Corporation Cottages, Holbrook Lane, Coventry There seems to be a MIC https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_q=yale+silfred - Royal Fusiliers, 4383, and LC, 197786 [Ancestry have indexed as Gilfred YALE] Your man?? M Yes this is the one. Thank you See my great grandfather told his family he threw his medals in the fire through disgust and shame which was corroborated from other family members... so I am intrigued as to the history of the medal and where it came from. David is my great uncle but we don't have much contact . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jem1988 Posted 8 November , 2023 Share Posted 8 November , 2023 1 hour ago, Matlock1418 said: There are a series of pension records at WFA/Fold3 for a Silfred YALE, 179986, Labour Corps and previously [unknown unit] 4383, 47459 Disability pension: Discharged 11.3.19 claimed for a GSW Shoulder Address: 78 Piccadilly, Kingsbury, Warwick Grant by Military Serviuce (Civil Liabilities): Watch & Clock Repairing business Address: 335 Corporation Cottages, Holbrook Lane, Coventry There seems to be a MIC https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_q=yale+silfred - Royal Fusiliers, 4383, and LC, 197786 [Ancestry have indexed as Gilfred YALE] Your man?? M I have some paperwork saying he was originally attached to the 42nd battalion royal fusiliers but know nothing about them. Would be great if anyone else does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baden1958 Posted 31 January Share Posted 31 January Dear interested parties/family members sorry for delay in reverting. I've just found the paperwork I've researched on Silfred Yale. As I originally mentioned I bought his Victory Medal on Ebay some time ago as I collect medals etc to Royal Fusiliers (being an ex-Fusilier myself). All the info above ties in with my own research. He enlisted into the Royal Fusiliers in November 1915 serving in France where he was wounded by shrapnel in July 1916. He then subsequently served in the Middlesex Regt and then the Labour Corps in Britain and was eventually discharged in March 1920. His address on enlistment was 3 Angel Street, Rochdale Road, Manchester. I then have a letter from the Warwickshire Police to Army records dated January 1924 seeking his whereabouts in relation to a warrant for his arrest. It has some detail in it about his appearance and alleged offence. I'm happy to scan and email it if you like. There is other correspondence on Ancestry.com about his service, pension claim and whereabouts. kind regards Stephen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jem1988 Posted 2 February Share Posted 2 February Thank-you for this. I do have those records I believe but thank you for checking. May I ask a favour please. Can you please print his picture to keep with the medal. We should not like his memory forgotten. Also if you ever do feel that you should like to sell this medal we would be glad to have it back in the family Regards Jemma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baden1958 Posted 2 February Share Posted 2 February Hi Jemma thanks your email. It's good to see a photo of him to almost complete the story. I am very happy to let you have the medal for an agreed price. I'm a firm believer in medals being with the families (assuming they still want them). Would £20 plus p&p be acceptable unless you live somewhere we are near or visit frequently. Whereabouts are you (I don't need your precise address)? kind regards Stephen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jem1988 Posted 2 February Share Posted 2 February Yes please. Please email me at (removed by moderator) and we can agree to this. Thank you so much that would be amazing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Michelle Young Posted 2 February Admin Share Posted 2 February Please use private messages to communicate email addresses rather than post on a public forum, as spammers can harvest your information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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