Muerrisch Posted 5 November , 2003 Share Posted 5 November , 2003 So, it wasn't Snoopy after all, then Muttley or just possibly Grommit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest paddy Posted 5 November , 2003 Share Posted 5 November , 2003 Oh! Hello Phil Perhaps none of the real Aussies would give a second thought to comments made in the second part of your posting of 5 November. However, I have counted way past ten, have weighed the consequences fully, yet cannot let them pass. Hope your chooks grow into Emus n kick your dunny down! Best Regards Patrick J Gavan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 5 November , 2003 Share Posted 5 November , 2003 I throw the subject open. Peter Hope your chooks grow into Emus n kick your dunny down Now look what yuv done! Chucks, Emus, Dunnys. What ever next I hope you're satisfied lad Michael D.R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSeptember1918 Posted 6 November , 2003 Share Posted 6 November , 2003 G'day Paddy Sorry , I have no idea what your going on about . But imagine I have got you upset about something . Well for the moment I'm all done in on going on crusades ( check out the Aerodrome if you don't know what I mean ) ..so it's just easier to say I'm totally wrong and apologise for any ...no, make that all words , I've ever written .....in my life . Phil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Beckett Posted 6 November , 2003 Author Share Posted 6 November , 2003 Michael, my intention was not to start WW1A but it seems that out of all the good comments and information tendered so far, one thing is perfectly clear to me and that is that if one believes in the afterlife then thats when one can go and ask Manfred himself. (I reckon he will know) because here on planet Earth it will always be a subject for contention. Thanks to ALL who have contributed so far Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killratio Posted 6 November , 2003 Share Posted 6 November , 2003 if one believes in the afterlife then thats when one can go and ask Manfred himself. (I reckon he will know) Peter, As I said in my earlier post, this idea originated a few years ago with a lady who claimed to be the reincarnation of Manfred... so we don't have to wait, apparently! She was also one of the thieves crucified with JC.. and according to her, history has all of that story wrong as well. I have examined Stephen's arguments in detail. He has been very thorough in his research but I disagree fundamentally with his findings. regards Darryl Who can mount a strong case that he shot J.R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest paddy Posted 6 November , 2003 Share Posted 6 November , 2003 G'day Paddy Sorry , I have no idea what your going on about . But imagine I have got you upset about something . Well for the moment I'm all done in on going on crusades ( check out the Aerodrome if you don't know what I mean ) ..so it's just easier to say I'm totally wrong and apologise for any ...no, make that all words , I've ever written .....in my life . Phil. Hello Phil No need to be THAT repentant! A simple, but genuine, apology to those whom you suggested would not only kill somebody in cold blood, but spend their lives bragging about the achievement, may have sufficed. But now you mention it, perhaps 59,342 aplogies may be warranted, given that none of Them returned from their Crusade. And just for good measure, I have never doubted their ability & propensity to take prisoners. Don't let me get up your nose. You have a nice day now! Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pete Wood Posted 6 November , 2003 Share Posted 6 November , 2003 Well I did read the few books I have on the subject last night - and I looked on The Aerodrome postings - and I'm still none the wiser. The bit that's confusing me is THE bullet that did the deed, and lack of holes on MvR's plane - well the bits that survived after the trophy hunters got their hands on it. The photos I have seen, showing the rear of the stripped aeroplane, APPEAR to suggest that no bullets hit the rear of the plane. That appears to rule out Brown. That said, a short burst could have hit the side of the plane from Brown's (or another?!) plane.... But I readily admit that I hadn't realised that Popkin and 'other' machine gunners were quite as close to MvR as they were; only a few hundred yards (or less) if my sources are correct. What's confusing me is that a deformed bullet was found inside (??!!) the Baron's clothing, when the autopsy was carried out. I know that only some sources give this info. But, if this is correct, I am at a loss to explain why a high velocity bullet did not pass through one layer of clothing, through the body - and out the other side, so to speak. I am not an expert, but the fact that the bullet had lost so much velocity appears to suggest that it was fired from a distance, even if it did hit bone. We've all heard of the flask, or pocket bible, that stopped a bullet from entering a soldier's body. But the book that MvR was carrying was not damaged. So I think that this rules out that theory. MvR's aeroplane contained no armour, so there was little to impeed the speed of the bullet. So, in my very humble opinion, I still think that the case is wide open. Pat, I think you've been way too harsh. I don't believe Phil needed to apologise for anything that he said. In fact, I was thinking of the same thing myself; it would have been difficult to have kept quiet about the deed (if indeed that was the scenario). If a soldier had, in the heat of the moment, let off a round at MvR (even if it missed!!), I think he would have told someone; Aussie, Kiwi, English, or whatever nationality. Attitudes to killing were different then, than they are now - and I'm convinced that if a soldier thought that he had 'bagged' the most famous German ace, he WOULD have considered it a great feat. The same soldier would also, I'm sure, have told his best mate, who would have told his friend, who would have written home about it etc etc. If my experience of soldiers is anything to go by, and I've been in a few modern conflicts, the typical view of a young 'squaddie,' with regard to the taking of life, would go against the grain of the lessons taught at Sunday School. I'm sure there are others on this forum who have heard the same youthful blood-lust boasts/promises as I. A soldier lives in a different world to that of the armchair historian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSeptember1918 Posted 6 November , 2003 Share Posted 6 November , 2003 Have you read " The Red Baron's Last Flight " by Franks and Bennett , RT ? . It goes into quite some detail about some of the things your wondering about . While it only offers up a theory , I think it makes for very interesting reading . Now after we work out who delivered the fatal shot on MvR , then we can work out which soldier wounded Lothar on the 13th of May 1917 Phil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest paddy Posted 6 November , 2003 Share Posted 6 November , 2003 G'day R T I respect your views, and am thankful that I have not been called upon to be anything other than an armchair historian. However, I maintain the very strongly held views expressed above. ooRoo Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Smith Posted 6 November , 2003 Share Posted 6 November , 2003 G'day Paddy, I found Phils comments a bit off track as well, all I have read state that the AIF were quite efficient when it came to surrendering German troops. I am certain that there was the odd incident, but I have never read or heard of any work that gave evidence of the mass slaughter of surrendering Germans by the AIF. I think this is another furphy surrounding the AIF. Andrew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSeptember1918 Posted 6 November , 2003 Share Posted 6 November , 2003 I quoted from a few things I had read ..I said I was sorry if I had offended anyone , that means I still can have my opinion , but if it offended anyone then I apologise ...can we move on now ? . Surely this thread is about MvR . He's much more interesting than me . I'm just here for the game ...not to upset anyone or to try to change their opinion on anything . Phil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest paddy Posted 6 November , 2003 Share Posted 6 November , 2003 G'day Phil, G'day Andrew Fine by me Finis Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Smith Posted 7 November , 2003 Share Posted 7 November , 2003 I quoted from a few things I had read ..I said I was sorry if I had offended anyone , that means I still can have my opinion , but if it offended anyone then I apologise ...can we move on now ? . Surely this thread is about MvR . He's much more interesting than me . I'm just here for the game ...not to upset anyone or to try to change their opinion on anything . Phil. G'day Phil, No worries, opinions are fine mate, when I re read the thread I probably shouldn't have jumped down your throat, I just had a similar discussion on another forum a few months back. That bloke accused the AIF of being a bunch of murderers, when in fact on the Western Front they accounted for nearly one third of all POW's taken in 1918. Please accept my apology. Andrew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest paddy Posted 7 November , 2003 Share Posted 7 November , 2003 'alloh 'alloh What's goin on ere then? Three full pages SUPPOSEDLY about the Red Baron, and arf of it from those bloody orstralians telling everyone about how they won both wars. AGAIN. Is there an OZ free zone or facility on this thing? Personal to Phil and Andrew. If this relationship blossoms, do you know where to send the spotter's fee? I Love youse all Paddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 7 November , 2003 Share Posted 7 November , 2003 Is there an OZ free zone or facility on this thing? Heaven forbid! Even when you curse you raise a laugh with your Chooks, Emus & Dunnys Don't even think about ozlessness Regards Michael D.R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Smith Posted 7 November , 2003 Share Posted 7 November , 2003 'alloh 'alloh What's goin on ere then? Three full pages SUPPOSEDLY about the Red Baron, and arf of it from those bloody orstralians telling everyone about how they won both wars. AGAIN. Paddy Paddy, I cannot see the problem mate?? Andrew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest paddy Posted 7 November , 2003 Share Posted 7 November , 2003 G'day Andrew Woops! Red faces time. Combine G for George with S for Stupid and see what you come up with. Extra clue DH does not stand for De Havilland ooRoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest paddy Posted 7 November , 2003 Share Posted 7 November , 2003 Well that didn't come out right! Today I was reading two threads, Red Baron & G for George, but got mixed up and "attributed" all the postings to Red Baron. I had drawn a bit of flack here for acting as the aussie thought police, and thought that others might have considered that the australians were taking over the site. When Andrew stated that he couldn't understand the ramblings I realised my mistake and attempted to rectify it. The G for George was to direct him to that thread, to which you blokes had all contributed. The S for Stupid was an admission that I'd stuffed up. The DH was also self incriminating, and once again I have to apologise for poor attempts at Humour. Honest! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 7 November , 2003 Share Posted 7 November , 2003 While we are at it, here is a true story. Landed Brisbane, shattered, from UK via HongKong. Customs/ Immigration man a real illegitimate type, gave us terrible time for no reason that I could see, just wanted to take a few minutes up amusing himself. At this stage I was not attuned to spotting the Oz/NZ accent differences. Complained later to my hosts who said simultaneously "That was probably a Kiwi!". Subsequently had no problems in NZ, but that mind-set seemed common in Oz. I merely speak as a reporter, not a side-taker. A plague on both your houses, so to speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Smith Posted 7 November , 2003 Share Posted 7 November , 2003 Well that didn't come out right! Today I was reading two threads, Red Baron & G for George, but got mixed up and "attributed" all the postings to Red Baron. I had drawn a bit of flack here for acting as the aussie thought police, and thought that others might have considered that the australians were taking over the site. When Andrew stated that he couldn't understand the ramblings I realised my mistake and attempted to rectify it. The G for George was to direct him to that thread, to which you blokes had all contributed. The S for Stupid was an admission that I'd stuffed up. The DH was also self incriminating, and once again I have to apologise for poor attempts at Humour. Honest! Paddy, Dont worry mate, no offence taken, the humour was understood. Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
182 CEF Posted 11 November , 2003 Share Posted 11 November , 2003 Please take no offence at this however I feel if Brown had been American or British, he would have been given full credit and there would be no argument. The fact is Brown went to the rescue of Wop May. ( Thank the Gods he did or many Canadians would have died in the 20's when May flew need medical supplies into a small Northern Town during one of the worst winter storms on record) No one will ever convince me that Brown didn't nail the sucker ( ME Canadian, what can I say) I have seen the Barons seat at RCMI in Toronto, and yes the holes in the back of the seat are mounting holes. Hell we can't figure out who really killed Kennedy., and there were millions of people there and watching on TV. Oh yeah, sorry the Aussies didn't win WW1, it was the CEF!! Ive heard the Aussies had just recieved a LARGE load of SRD and couldn't be found after June 1918. LOL!!!!!! Dean Owen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSeptember1918 Posted 11 November , 2003 Share Posted 11 November , 2003 Alot of pent up anger there Dean ! . No wonder you Cannuck's were such good fighter's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest paddy Posted 12 November , 2003 Share Posted 12 November , 2003 Couldn't take offence at that , Dean, only pity. I can direct you to where fifty odd thousand of them were hiding by June 1918. And yet they still hadn't learned their lesson! Thousands more fronted up on August 8. Patrick Gavan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Birch Posted 12 November , 2003 Share Posted 12 November , 2003 Who killed the Red Baron? The man who squeezed the trigger? or the ASC man who carried the amunition box with the bullet up? or the Driver who transported it from the Channel Port? or the Pioneer who helped maintain the railway? or the Stevedor who unloaded the ship? or the Sailor who crewed the ship which brought it from England? or the Train Driver who took it to the Port? or the Storeman who sorted it in the Depot? or the Cook who fed them all? or the Munitions girl who made it? And does it really matter? The Red Baron was one of thousands killed by the British war effort. Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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