swizz Posted 14 August , 2006 Share Posted 14 August , 2006 Afternoon all, I might be going on an extended visit to northern Italy in the next few months and I thought I might take the opportunity to visit some of the Italian front. Unfortunately I know virtually nothing about it! There don't seem to be a vast number of books on the subject, but I'd be interested to know whether anyone here has any recommendations. I know there are a couple of battlefield guide- type books - has anyone ever used them? Swizz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kate Wills Posted 14 August , 2006 Share Posted 14 August , 2006 Hi Swizz, This question has been tabled before, so the Search button should yield results; however, I found the Wilks overview dry to the point of dead boring. There is a good Battleground Europe - Asiago volume by Francis Mackay. For a personal memoir, try Graham Greenwell's 'Infant in Arms'. PS, try here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swizz Posted 14 August , 2006 Author Share Posted 14 August , 2006 Hi Kate, Thanks for the pointer - there's some good info on that thread! Its so difficult starting into a new subject when I know literally nothing about it. Makes me realise how Western front orientated I have been up to this point... I had seen the Battleground Europe one on Amazon and I might go for that as a starting point. Swizz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marco Posted 14 August , 2006 Share Posted 14 August , 2006 Blowing my own, euh, never mind: (includes booklist as well) http://www.xs4all.nl/~aur/Battlefields/italytravel.htm http://www.xs4all.nl/~aur/Battlefields/italytravel2.htm http://www.xs4all.nl/~aur/Battlefields/italytravel3.htm Regards, Marco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Baker Posted 14 August , 2006 Share Posted 14 August , 2006 Not a travelogue, but you might find my Italy pages interesting: http://www.1914-1918.net/italy.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinWills Posted 15 August , 2006 Share Posted 15 August , 2006 There is a good Battleground Europe - Asiago volume by Francis Mackay. For a personal memoir, try Graham Greenwell's 'Infant in Arms'. There are now two volumes by MacKay - both very useful. The Wilks is useful but dry and there is another volume on Caporetto - whose details escape me. The British Official History is more than useful and has been reprinted - the originals are "rather expensive". Tourist Info in Asiago certainly used to produce an excellent map showing trench lines and some of the old forts high above the valleys can be visited and have been part restored. The corridor between Asiago and Venice also conatins some of the"rear" areas and there are cemeteries etc to be visited there. A couple bookshops in Asiago seem to stock an interesting range of books and the like on the Italian front and also cover the "enemy side" as well. I have a particularly interesting and well illustrated volume on gas shells (note to self - must learn Italian one day - book might be even more interesting ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenwoodman Posted 15 August , 2006 Share Posted 15 August , 2006 One of these, Martin Falls, Cyril 'Caporetto' Weidenfeld & Nicolson, London, 1966. Morselli, M Caporetto 1917: Victory or Defeat? London Frank Cass 2001 (ISBN: 0714650730). Seth, Ronald Caporetto, The Scapegoat Battle; London McDonald 1965 Smith N "Caporetto : 12th Battle of Isonzo". Wilks, J & Wilks, E Rommel and Caporetto October, 1917 Barnsley 2001 (ISBN: 0850527724) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swizz Posted 15 August , 2006 Author Share Posted 15 August , 2006 Thanks everyone for this information - the forum comes up trumps again! Marco's travel pages look very useful (with great photos), as does the material on this site which I had skimmed through already but will give more time to when I get a chance. So many books! (including one written by someone from my part of the world - Cyril Falls strikes again!). I'm pretty sure I will buy the battlefield guides but I think a library visit is called for to suss out what else might be useful. When I'm out there I hope to learn some Italian although whether I will ever have enough to read anything published in that language is doubtful...! Again, many thanks to all for your reponses Swizz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Potter Posted 18 August , 2006 Share Posted 18 August , 2006 Swiz, Another personal account, probably out of print, is "Across the Piave" by Norman Gladden. Gladden was a private in 11th Northumberland Fusiliers. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antonio83 Posted 19 August , 2006 Share Posted 19 August , 2006 The best global history of the Italian Front available in English is "Isonzo: the forgotten sacrifice of the Great War" by John R. Schindler, Praeger Publishers, 2001. A must read for the Anglo reader, and a fresh, almost provocative, look on the causes of the Austrian defeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swizz Posted 20 August , 2006 Author Share Posted 20 August , 2006 Thanks Phil and Antonio - I've added these to my list. now all I have to do is find time to read them! Swizz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob lembke Posted 20 August , 2006 Share Posted 20 August , 2006 Hi, Swizz; Rats! I just wrote a long information-packed response, and it flew off into a cyber-space black hole when I was thrown off by a phone call. Basically, I was singing the praises of Slovenija for such a trip. The road north from Nova Gorica (just east of Goriza) passes thru Kobarid. I probably drove thru eight times before I realized that it was Caparetto. There is a new quite good WW I museum there of course focused on the local fighting in WW I. If you continue north along the road, which follows the Soca River upstream quite closely, the road gets more and more spectacular, and then dramatically rises to Versic Pass (from memory), about 6000 feet, sort of lunar, above the tree-line. Then you can go down the amazing, steep, switch-backing road (safe, if you are not a fool), which I think was built by Russian POWs for the Austrians. Close to the bottom on the west side of the road is a wooden Orthodox church built as a memorial to about 300 Russian POWs who were swept away by an avalanche. (My Slovene mountain guide's father was a Russian POW who had the sense to not go back after the war.) There is at least one other WW I museum there, in an old fort from the era, I think; I have not seen it myself. The people at the Kobarid Museum could direct you, or a Slovene national tourist office. The town at the bottom is Kranska Gora, which, being a ski town, will have a lot of accomodations at off-season prices. But I prefer to stay in private accomodations. Slovenija is beautiful; friendly people who speak a lot of English and German, and should be cheaper than Italy. I think that most of the battlefields are on the Slovene side of the border. I have been to Slovenija about 18 times, lived there, worked, studied there, as well as playing tourist. I would be happy to give you more info if you wish. I could also give you leads if you would like to hike about or do some climbing. I could even put you in touch with my guide, who was the top Jugoslav climber for about 20 years. We used to climb in Switzerland every year; my guide in Slovenija was a friend's sister. Bob Lembke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swizz Posted 23 August , 2006 Author Share Posted 23 August , 2006 Hi Bob, Thanks so much for your reply - I only just noticed it on this thread! I have looked more closely at a map of the area and I think (assuming that our car insurance covers it) we might try and get across into Slovenia. I had not realised that Caparetto wasn't even in Italy! My husband very much likes the sound of the switch-backing road too! Unfortunately we still don't know if we're even going to Italy (its with my husband's job) so I've put my preparations on ice for the time being... Swizz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul guthrie Posted 23 August , 2006 Share Posted 23 August , 2006 Isonzo is a terrific very badly mapped book. The switch back road is great. A terrific read about how the Italian soldier endured appaling officers and conditions is Sardinian Brigade by Emilio Lussu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swizz Posted 2 September , 2006 Author Share Posted 2 September , 2006 Hello Paul I have been away for the past week so have only just returned to the forum. Many thanks for your recommendation of 'Sardinian Brigade' - I have literally never heard of that book and so probably wouldn't have known about it if you hadn't pointed it out! It sounds excellent and I'm in the process of getting hold of a copy at the minute. Swizz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi Posted 11 October , 2006 Share Posted 11 October , 2006 Hello Paul I have been away for the past week so have only just returned to the forum. Many thanks for your recommendation of 'Sardinian Brigade' - I have literally never heard of that book and so probably wouldn't have known about it if you hadn't pointed it out! It sounds excellent and I'm in the process of getting hold of a copy at the minute. Swizz I don't know how good it has been translated to english, but anyway "The Sardinian Brigade" is a must-read in my opinion, the original title :"Un anno sull'altipiano" means one year on the high plateau, the one of Asiago namely. Sadly I'm not aware of any translation of Carlo Salsa's "Trincee": his personal account of the nightmare life on the mount S. Michele during the terrible and useless eleven Isonzo-battles. There are german language publications of the '70ies "Der Krieg im Fels und Eis" if memory serves me, which are excellent in rendering the hard life and fight of both Austrians and Italian, whith many pictures and maps... They are left in my parent's home so it's been a very long time since I last looked at them. Aother personal point of wiew is given by Paolo Caccia Dominioni's diary. He is more famous for his later books about his african experiences as assault engineer officer (Takfir and El-Alamein) and his later activity in recovering and burying the corpses of the fallen of El alamein, but in his very youth he volunteered in the Italian Army in the engineers corps, fisrst as "Bridge-thrower" (is it correct?) and then in a flametrower unit on the Isonzo front. Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob lembke Posted 11 October , 2006 Share Posted 11 October , 2006 Aother personal point of wiew is given by Paolo Caccia Dominioni's diary. He is more famous for his later books about his african experiences as assault engineer officer (Takfir and El-Alamein) and his later activity in recovering and burying the corpses of the fallen of El alamein, but in his very youth he volunteered in the Italian Army in the engineers corps, fisrst as "Bridge-thrower" (is it correct?) and then in a flametrower unit on the Isonzo front. Regards Luigi; My principal interest is flame throwers; in particular the German flame effort, but also the flame troops of all other combatants. I have very little on the Italians. Does Dominioni say a good deal about his service with these weapons? Can you give a title? (Although, with such a complete and not common name, I probably can find the book.) Has it been translated into English? I can read Italian fairly well in a pinch, although I have never studied it, and have spoken it very little. From my father's oral history I first thought that he was sent to Caparetto with his flame company for the Nov. 1917 battle. He never said that he was, but he told me a couple of stories that seemed to have come from someone who actually was there. But when I translated his Militaer=Pass I saw that at the time of the battle he was in hospital in France, as an old wound from Verdun had become re-infected. (It was a problem for over 10 years.) So he probably heard the stories from comrades who had gone. I have seen a good photo of German flame troops there, but I have never seen anything that indicated that they carried out flame attacks in that battle. Their flame attacks were very carefully planned, and when the attack went forward quickly there probably was not a good opportunity and a static target to attack. Have you seen other mentions of Italian or German flame attacks on the Italian front? Bob Lembke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob lembke Posted 11 October , 2006 Share Posted 11 October , 2006 I got less lazy and got on the Internet and looked in a few large book sources and libraries. I could not get onto the Library of Congress on-line catalog as their circuits were overloaded, but the New York Public Library has about eight or ten of his books; one on WW II was translated into English. The diary was published in 1965 in Milan, and is 373 pages, so it must have some detail. I gather that his full name (I hope) is Paolo Caccia Dominioni de Sillavengo, and he seems to sometimes be cataloged under the last last name; remember this if you are looking for the book. The title is very long, but has the word "Lieutenant" and "diary" in Italian, of course, in the title, which seems 25 words long. I will have my super-librarian wife look for where the book is at other locations. Bob Lembke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob lembke Posted 11 October , 2006 Share Posted 11 October , 2006 Hunted about, and found about 15 copies of Dominioni's El Alamain book, and two copies (expensive) of the WW I diary, for sale. All are on mainland Europe, not the US or UK. However, lots of copies of a cookbook by an author with the same last name. Bob Lembke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob lembke Posted 12 October , 2006 Share Posted 12 October , 2006 My wife found about 20 copies of Dominioni's WW I diary scattered about the USA in various libraries. Her library at the University of Pennsylvania does not have it, but she found and ordered a copy from the library at Princeton. Bob Lembke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinWills Posted 15 October , 2006 Share Posted 15 October , 2006 It strikes me that threads like this one on the lesser considered battlefronts (ie NOT the Western Front) often turn up a useful "bibliography". I wonder if pals might like to consider building bibliographies for these "lesser" dcoumented battlefronts as an aid to those enquiring upon these areas. Any Thoughts? I had in mind: Mesopotamia Salonika Egypt & Palestine Gallipoli Italy East & South West Africa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob lembke Posted 15 October , 2006 Share Posted 15 October , 2006 Any Thoughts? Happy to start off with some half-baked ideas on this useful suggestion. Perhaps an "editor" can volunteer or be dragooned for each "secondary theatre". (Probably not secondary to anyone who fought or died there.) I think that a useful entry would not only have the usual author, title, date of publication, # of pages, etc., but notes on the usefulness and weaknesses of the source (not only from the person, but perhaps from others familiar with the work), some notes on availability and/or price, if useful, etc. Perhaps in total an average papagraph's worth. What might be more useful, by not being hundreds of posts long where the jems are lost among the cow patties, and to keep such an effort from eating up gobs of storage for the overall forum, if possible, the following proceedure might work. One person would propose a source, giving his information, others might comment or add other useful info, and at some point the editor might consider the combined info "ripe" and put the source entry into some sort of finished space, maintained either as a post on the threat, or a document on his word processor. If the latter, periodically the "document", in other words the theatre bibliography to date, would be posted to the thread (I am assuming a thread for each theatre bibliography, managed by the editor.) When the entry for the given source seems "ripe", the various posts that led to the finished (?) source entry could be deleted by the editor, a Moderator, or some other Pal with semi-divine characteristics. Periodically, the entire bibliography could be posted on the bibliography's thread. Also, since the simple word processor utilized by the Forum, and/or the other simple one utilized in the cut/Word Pad/paste process in at least my operating system, which destroys subtle formatting, italics, etc., there might be some mechanism for Pals to obtain a copy of the word processor master copy of the bibliography, if one is being maintained. I have often posted a copy of some document I have on my computer, sometimes one sort of focused bibliography that I have built up, only to have 90% of the spacing, formatting, underlining, etc. that I used for clarity be destroyed in the version that pops up in the post. I do not know if that is feasible in a fashion that does not put an undue burden on the editor. Bob Lembke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob lembke Posted 23 October , 2006 Share Posted 23 October , 2006 Guys; I have Dominioni's diary, and am plowing thru and translating what is of interest to me. Aside from the fact that I have never studied Italian, and only once skimmed a book in Italian, a rare and curious one I found in the National Library in Vienna in Italian, the diary seems to be written in dialect, or perhaps in a non-literary sort of language. Also, my dictionary, although of the period, and seemingly a good one (published by Oxford), may be part of the problem. My point is that Italian seems to be rather easy to read, if you have any background in a Romance language, such as French, except one should expect to consult a dictionary a lot for the unfamiliar vocabilary. I have a nice, heavily illustrated Slovene guide to the Isonzo Front, as it exists now. I bought it in Ljubljana, the capital of Slovenija, in German; it is titled Die Isonzofront and is by a Slovene lady, Petra Svoljsak (there is an accent on the last "s" that I had to omit). I mention it as, aside from the original Slovene (a fairly difficult language), I think it was also published in English, as I think that I saw it on abebooks.com . I guess that these are still in print, and you probably can find it being sold widely in Slovenija. Bob Lembke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest leo1933 Posted 1 November , 2006 Share Posted 1 November , 2006 Guys; I have Dominioni's diary, and am plowing thru and translating what is of interest to me. Aside from the fact that I have never studied Italian, and only once skimmed a book in Italian, a rare and curious one I found in the National Library in Vienna in Italian, the diary seems to be written in dialect, or perhaps in a non-literary sort of language. Also, my dictionary, although of the period, and seemingly a good one (published by Oxford), may be part of the problem. My point is that Italian seems to be rather easy to read, if you have any background in a Romance language, such as French, except one should expect to consult a dictionary a lot for the unfamiliar vocabilary. I have a nice, heavily illustrated Slovene guide to the Isonzo Front, as it exists now. I bought it in Ljubljana, the capital of Slovenija, in German; it is titled Die Isonzofront and is by a Slovene lady, Petra Svoljsak (there is an accent on the last "s" that I had to omit). I mention it as, aside from the original Slovene (a fairly difficult language), I think it was also published in English, as I think that I saw it on abebooks.com . I guess that these are still in print, and you probably can find it being sold widely in Slovenija. Bob Lembke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi Posted 7 November , 2006 Share Posted 7 November , 2006 Sorry to have let you wait that long... yes is Paolo Caccia Dominoni di Sillavengo. You might find some hurdes in translating his book as it is written in a somewhat "researched" style, although pleasant to read for a native italian... no dialect I remeber of, apart maybe some citations of what some soldier might have said. Go to the second part of the book if you want to read about the flamethrowers, the first part deals with his experience as pontooneer. He speaks about heavy and light flamethrowers in fixed installations, if memory servesme there is a detailed map of the disposition in his front sector, but I don't reember much details about their use. Sad "Trincee" hasn't been translated, this is a very good book, written in a very "modern" way of speaking. The Sardinian Brigade served as basis for a good movie of Francesco Rosi, "Uomini Contro" (1970) also known in the USA as "Many Wars Ago". Another very good movie is "La Grande Guerra" (The Great War by Mario Monicelli, 1959). I seem to recall that Dominioni's books about the second world war were translated, but I'm not sure. Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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