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Dan,

Re: the Grenadier DCM winner.

He is listed in Ponsonby as "Discharged".

Don't know when though.

Thinking about it, this chap "Sgt C B Sumpter Fort Garry Horse" as a Canadian would have his Service Record available on-line.

Find out when he was wounded and we can narrow down the date.

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Dan,

Re: the Grenadier DCM winner.

He is listed in Ponsonby as "Discharged".

Don't know when though.

Thinking about it, this chap "Sgt C B Sumpter Fort Garry Horse" as a Canadian would have his Service Record available on-line.

Find out when he was wounded and we can narrow down the date.

Thank you for the info i am starting to feel like the boss on a murder enquiry tracking down names dates a time line . Like i have always said the members on this forum deserve a pat on the back for there detective skills. I am going to have a friend look at it as well he is good at signatures so perhaps i may get a full list of names and there may even be some one famous on it.

Dan

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Okay this is a list as best as i can read the signatures

2nd Lt T W Hetherngton 12th DLI. Trinity College Cambridge

2nd Lt A E Ansell 5th South Staff Regiment .Luton

Sgt C B Sumpter Fort Garry Horse .CEF

Pte S B Gates 2nd U.P.S Battery

Pte J W Speed R.M.L.I. Grand Fleet

Cpl S L D Ring 2/4 Norfolks

Pte A Wicks 2nd Suffolk Regt

2nd Lt T A Armbrewster 3/8 D.L.I.

Major Jas Stewart 6th A&SH

Pte W Dyson 46th Field Ambulance R.A.M.C.

H G Cook P.O.A.M. R.N.A.S.

Cpt T Harding Narusu 3/1st Camb Regt

Pte D Hall 46th Field Ambulance R.A.M.C.

Capt F S Scruby 3/1st Camb Regt

Pte C L Day 46th Field Ambulance R.A.M.C.

G S Whitney Suffolk Yeomanry

Corp D Craig Fife and Forfar Yeomanry

Corp E Vouser No2206 1st Cambridge Regt

Pte E Pinder 1ST Cambridge Reg

H R P Robinson L.S.H

J Haworth No 27266 6th Sig R.E.

Lance Cpl S Davidson Lovat Scouts Motor Cyclist 10-09-14

Cptn A W Coxon Field Car

Trooper Bolton Royal Bucks Hussars

B Barker P.D.1ST H.M.S. Monarch Grand Fleet

Sergt A H Maile 1st Eastern General Hospital R.A.M.C.

Sgt H Brindley A.P.C.

J Booth Signalling Sergt

Sergt F Woodham 1ST West Yorks Regt

Reg Sgt Major F G Jones DCM Grenadier Guards

Sgt F J Wright G.H.Q. B.E.F.

2nd Lt Walter Carver 1st Hertfordshire Regt

Capt H Hickley 3/1st Camb Regt

G F Morley A.S.C.

Sgt Allan Morrison 1st Lovat Scouts

Pte John Macdonald R.A.M.C 1st Lovat Scouts

2ND Lt C F Wright 1st Suffolk Regt

Sgt Major Adam Fife and Forfar Yeomanry

Gnr A B Wright M.G.S 1ST L.S.H

W Gray H.M.T Aslania

G H Woolley VC

F Keir M.G

Cpt Alan Poley Q.G.

Pte S L Pate No 3057 1ST Cambridge Regt

Corp Of the Horse C Head Royal Horse Guards 7th Household Cav Brig 3rd Cav Div

Cpt M C Clayton Adjt 3/1 Cambridge Regt

Major H C Donald R.A.MC.T 6/ A& S H

A A Howell OC 3/1ST Cambridge Regt

Cpl B Holder R.E. D.C.M.

Sergt J Somers VC

A Mcdonald Sister oct 3rd 1914

Tpr C Day No 596 N.F.Y

Geoffrey Wood R.F.C.

P Hannsen V.C. Lincolnshire Regt

G Y Good R.F.A.

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My wife has something similar but hers is a tablecloth signed by the internees in Stanley Camp in Hong Kong during WW2. No famous names though.

Nigel

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My wife has something similar but hers is a tablecloth signed by the internees in Stanley Camp in Hong Kong during WW2. No famous names though.

Nigel

Well i consider myself lucky to have been given such a item . Your WW2 will be just as nice to have and treasure.

Dan

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Hi Guys

I now have the medals of the owner of this wonderfull item he is Lt H .R. Ashby would like to know what regiment he was.

Dan

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On another issue i have a ORIGINAL American Indian Wars medal and want it researched it is to a Dewitt (Clinton) Peters Lt Col with the letters MC on the medal how can one research this.Dan

Dan, I've done some checking on this for you.

Surgeon-Major DeWitt Clinton Peters (snr) was the father of the very well-known Baltimore-born artist DeWitt Clinton Peters junior (1865-1948).

DeWitt Clinton Peters was appointed an Assistant Surgeon on 15 August 1854, resigning 1 October 1856. He re-enlisted as an Assistant Surgeon 23 June 1860, and served through the Civil War, which ended the same year his son was born, 1865. He was promoted Surgeon-Major 28 July 1866, and retired 1 December 1875. His rank of Lieut. Col. was a brevet (honorary) rank, given in recognition of 'meritorious service' during the Civil War. He died 22 April 1876 - just four months after his retirement.

As you may already know, the Indian Wars medal was only authorized in 1907, and was awarded to those veterans (mostly retired) who had served with the US military in one or more of the 12 major campaigns against hostile Indians between 1865-1891, as well as several specified lesser actions. DeWitt Clinton Peters' medal, then, was clearly claimed posthumously - presumably by his artist son, and (correctly) is inscribed with his brevet rank of Lieut. Col. The 'MC', of course, stands for Medical Corps. I'm trying to locate any information relative to DeWitt Clinton Peters' service in the Indian Wars, which must have taken place between 1866-1875. If anything comes to hand I'll let you know.

Ciao,

GAC

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'George Armstrong Custer'

Great thanks for the info on the Indian wars medal i apreciate it .

Dan

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Hi Dan,

Here's Lt.Ashby (courtesy of the National Archives):

Lieutenant Horace R. Ashby

cheers,

Shaw.

Hi Shaw

Great thanks for that i tried but i can never figure my way around the NA no matter what i do . I got two medals to Lt H R Ashby in the original box that was sent to him .

Dan

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Sgt J Somers VC

link here.http://www.diggerhistory2.info/graveyards/...rs/brit-vc3.htm

CWGC

Name: SOMERS, JAMES

Initials: J

Nationality: United Kingdom

Rank: Serjeant

Regiment/Service: Army Service Corps

Secondary Regiment: Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers

Secondary Unit Text: late (10512) 1st Bn.

Age: 24

Date of Death: 07/05/1918

Service No: M/39117

Awards: VC

Additional information: Son of R. W. Somers, of Cloughjordan.

Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead

Grave/Memorial Reference: West of Church.

Cemetery: MODREENY CHURCH OF IRELAND CHURCHYARD

Citation: An extract from the supplement to "The London Gazette," dated 31st Aug., 1915, records the following:- "For most conspicuous bravery on the night of 1st-2nd July, 1915, in the Southern Zone of the Gallipoli Peninsula, when, owing to hostile bombing, some of our troops had retired from a sap, Serjeant Somers remained alone on the spot until a party brought up bombs. He then climbed over into the Turkish trench, and bombed the Turks with great effect. Later on he advanced into the open under very heavy fire and held back the enemy by throwing bombs into their flank until a barricade had been established. During this period he frequently ran to and from our trenches to obtain fresh supplies of bombs. By his great gallantry and coolness Serjeant Somers was largely instrumental in effecting the recapture of a portion of our trench which had been lost."

Acccording to Symbol of Courage by Max Arthur Somers died 7th May 1918 from effects of gas poisoning.

Maybe that's why he was a patient and was able to sign his name.

Anyone know the action he was gassed?

Would help date the cloth.

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Well i dont think it was a dinner as there are a few with the date 1914 and one i think 1916 . I am going to try and make a list and see if any of them are on the CWGC list .

Dan

Dan,

when you've made the list, contact me on my thread entitled' Murphy's Register Look-ups 0 and we can see how many have traceable photographs.

Peter B)

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Dan

Some info on Woolley Queen Victoria's Rifles 1/9th Bn County of London Regt.

1st EVER Territorial to be awarded VC. Hill60 April 1915

Gazetted to Temp Captain 17/6/1915 - does this mean his signature is before this date?

BTW his MC was not gazetted until 1919 so not much help there.

Best of luck with your research.

Rgds

Andy

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Dan

Some info on Woolley Queen Victoria's Rifles 1/9th Bn County of London Regt.

1st EVER Territorial to be awarded VC. Hill60 April 1915

Gazetted to Temp Captain 17/6/1915 - does this mean his signature is before this date?

BTW his MC was not gazetted until 1919 so not much help there.

Best of luck with your research.

Rgds

Andy

No his signature clearly says VC as do the other 2 . Looking at the signatures and those with the dates i would say it was started around late 1914 ie Nov-Dec .

Dan

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If you are thinking of framing get a proper conservator to do it rather than any Tom, Dick or Harry cheap framing service - pinning or sticking it with god knows what. Nice piece,

Rogde

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If you are thinking of framing get a proper conservator to do it rather than any Tom, Dick or Harry cheap framing service - pinning or sticking it with god knows what. Nice piece,

Rogde

Well the thought crossed my mind there is a proper conservator across the road from me he has been there 25 years so i dare say he is okay. I was thinking special glass to stop sunlight and keep it out direct sunlight.

Dan

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  • 5 weeks later...

I might be able to help a bit...

Horace Rudland Ashby: Son of Mr R Ashby, formerly of Cambridge Post Office. Formerly No 1080, 1st Cambridgeshire Rgt. To front with D company, 1/1st Cambs on 14-2-15, wounded and invalided home. Sgt, commissioned, appointed to 3/1st Cambs Rgt 9-10-15.

To 1/1st btn 10-8-16. 2nd Lt, rejoins btn 4-10-16 from 116th Brigade, to A coy. Shellshock 13-10-16, Thiepval, to hospital. Transferred 19th Queen’s Royal West Surrey Rgt. 27-3-17 (LG 21-7-17). Disembodied 13-3-19.

There are other 3/1st btn Cambs Rgt officers on the cloth, such as Harding-Newman, Scruby, Peck, Morison, Hickling, Clayton and Howell. These must all date from his time at 3/1st btn.

However, Vawser died on 15-3-15 after the Germans attack on St Eloi, which predates Ashby's time at 3/1st btn & therefore dates from his time with 1/1st btn as an other rank.

Sid Pate was also in 1/1st btn in 1915, having gone to the front on 14-2-15 as well. He was in hospital by May 1915.

If you can add any info, I'd be grateful.

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Dan:

Regarding your IW medal to DeWitt Clinton Peters, I thought you might like some information regarding the

man for whom he was named, New York politician and builder of the Erie Canal, DeWitt Clinton:

DeWitt Clinton (1769-1828), often referred to as the "Father of the Erie Canal," served in the New York State Legislature and the U.S. Senate, and was Mayor of New York City and Governor of New York State. He strongly advocated building a canal through upstate New York to connect the east with the Midwest, and became such a strong supporter of the plan that his opponents called it "Clinton's Ditch".

DeWitt Clinton was the nephew of George Clinton and the son of James Clinton (1733-1812), who served in the French and Indian Wars and as an American Revolutionary general. DeWitt's accomplishments are numerous and well worth investigating further. The chronology below is but a brief glimpse of a very busy and productive public career.

1790 -- Columbia University graduate, lawyer

1790-1795 -- Private secretary to his uncle, George Clinton

1797-1798 -- New York Assembly

1798-1802 -- New York Senate

1802-1803 -- United States Senate

1803-1815 -- Mayor of New York City: Among his efforts during his 10 terms was the promotion of public education, city planning, public sanitation, and relief for the poor. As mayor, Clinton also held office as state senator (1806-1811) and lieutenant governor (1811-1813).

1817-1823 -- Governor of New York State

1810-1824 -- New York Canal Commissioner

1825-1828 -- Governor of New York State

1812 -- Narrowly lost the race for President of the United States to James Madison.

Gov. Clinton apparently was quite a respected man as I have seen (and once owned one) several vintage American Civil War Union soldier photographs in which the soldier's first and middle names were "DeWitt Clinton."

Chris

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one of the men t.w hetherington was KIA on 17-7-16

sueL may be the key to it all,she may be able to trace the doctors or nurses to a specific hospital,some of the signatures are different years,which would rule out a hospital ship,anyone know which hospital the VCs were in,that may swing it,bernard

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my moneys on sueL to crack this,probably all were at the eastern general hospital,but which branch was matron enid,m newton at,bernard

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  • 4 weeks later...
  • 1 year later...

Well i have done some thinking on this item and i have decided to part with it lord knows where but i cant display such a great item i spoke to my friend whom gave it to me and he has told me do with it as you wish. So any ideas as to where it should go swap or ?. Below a final list i think of names that i can make out.

Dan

B Barker PO 1st HMS Monarch Grand Fleet

Claude E Slilkington 2nd Lt 1St Herefordshire Regt

D G Grenville Lawson 2nd Lt 1st Herefordshire Regt

Walter L Carver 2nd Lt 1st Herefordshire Regt

Sgt J Summers VC

Trooper Bolton Royal Bucks Hussars

C B Claridge Cpl 8 Essex Cycle Btln Forrest Gate 1/11/14

Sgt A H Maile 1st Eastern General Hospital RAMC

Sgt Major C E W Coe 1st Eastern General Hospital

H Brindley Sergt Army Pay Corp

J Booth Signaling Sggt

W Hebrew Pioner Sgt 1 West Yorkshire rgt

F Woodham Sgt Cook 1st West Yorkshire regt

L Walter Sgt ASC

E Golby Cpl 1st West Yorkshire Regt

Driver D A Young RE

Theodore Morris on 3/1 Cambs Regt

W A Court Capt No 3 Coy ASC 11 Div

G F Morley ASC

Regtimental Sgt Major F J Jones DCM Grenadier Guards

A Wooland Staff Sgt ASC

Sgt F J Wright GHQ BEF

W Geary Drum Major 2nd West Yorks Regt Wounded 20th Sept 14 at Aisne

A H Staton Major 1/1st Cambs Regt

Coporal Of the Horse Wm Doyle 2 life Guards

R S Poultney 6th Sig Coy RE

Cpl A Fraser Motor Cyclists 1st Lovat Scouts

Sgt F H Page 1st Eastern General hospital

Trooper S C Filkins S Sqad Herts Yeomanry

J A Pembelton Major 4th Cheshire

W Stockbridge Cpl RAMC T 1st Eastern General Hospital

Capt J F Geshall 1st Eastern General Hospital

Lce Coporal S Davidson 10/9/14 Lovat Scouts Motor Cyclist

W H King 2nd Lt 2/8 Essex Regt

Tich J Haworth No 27266 6th Sig RE

Pte Dyson RAMC 46th Field Ambulance

G S Whitney Suffolk Yeomanrey

Cpl E Vouser No 2206 1st Cambridge Regt

Pte C L Day 46th Field Ambulance RAMC

Corp D Craig Fife & Forfar Yeomanry

H R P Robinson ASH

Coporal W Sibley Sig Coy RE

Cpt E Pinder 1st Btln Cambridgeshire Rgt

F S Scruby Cpt 3/1 Cambridge

2nd Lt T W Hetherington 12th Durham Light Infantry Trinity College Cambridge

T A Ambrister 2lt 3/4 DLI

Pte A Wicks 2nd Suffolk Rgt

Pte D P Hall 46th Field Ambulance RAMC

Pte W Dyson 46th Field Ambulance RAMC

Jas Stewart Major 6th ASH

2nd Lt A E Ansell 5th South Staff Regiment

Cpl S E D King 2/4 Norfolks

Pte J W Speed RMLI Grand Fleet

Sgt C B Sumpter Fort Gary Horse CEF

Pte S B Gates 2nd UPS Batt RF

R H H Whitehead Lt RHA

Corp H Paton 10th Btln 4th Brigade 1st Canadian Contingient

A Mcdonald Sister Oct 3rd 14

J F Willamson HMS Empress

Gunner S R W Perry RFA

Goeffrey Wood RFC

Ronald Stewart Major 6th ASH

D W Robertson Lt 6th ASH

Gilbert Barker C.F.

A J Pitt HMS Implasable

D Wright Loyal Suffolk Hussars

D G Constable Staff Sgt 1st Eastern General Hospital T

Trooper C Day No 596 NLY

Cpl B Holder RE Dispatch Rider 1st Sig Coy DCM

Enid Newton Matron 1st EGH

A J Read Sgt RAMC T

G W Brown 2nd Lt Royal West Kent

2nd Lt H Charter 7th Btln East Surry Regt

J Clough 2nd Lt 6th Yorks Batt

Arthur Appleby 2nd Lt 1st W L I

B Poffley Sgt Maj RH

C C Layne Chief Clark

H Bertam Johnson Cmdr AOC

W O Lang Cpl RE

Sgt Wynn 1/0 Motor Cyclist Lovat Scouts

Arthur Aldred 2Lt 2/7th Batt Manchester Regiment

Nurse L Johnson 1st Eastern General Hospital

A Rogers Cptn APM

Sgt Major McKintyre 1st Eastern General Hospital RAMC T

CSM Pull Cambrs Regt

Staff Sgt Mansfield 1st Eastern General Hospital

J S Keir MG

G H Wooley VC 2nd VR

Fred C Dundas Major QAA-QMG

ALex Delauqe Major QMG

Walter Campbell Colonel QAAQMG

D Parsons Major ASC SSO

Staff Sgt Clark 1st Eastern General Hospital RAMC

J R Ansell 2lt 2/24th Batt The Queens

Percy Hanson VC Lincolnshire Regt

Sgt Allan Morrison 1st Lovat Scouts

Pte S L Pate No 3057 1st Camb Regt

C Heal Cpl Of the Horse Royal Horse Guards 7th Household Cav Brigade 3rd Cav Div

Pte John Macdonald RAMC 1st Lovat Scouts

2lt C F Wright 1st Suffolk Regt

Gnr A B Wright MGS 1st ASH

Sgt Major Adam Fife Forfar Yeomary

J M Walker Coy Sig 9th Btn 1st Canadian Contingent Edminton

M C Clayton Capt & Adjt 3/1 Cambridge Regt

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Just a thought.....would be of interest on something like The Antiques Roadshow. It would make good tv....you know a lot more about it than the "expert", but he/she might be able to point the way to it being displayed, museum contact, etc.

Bruce

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