Cap Badge Post 1927 5th Kings

[Crunchy]

I have two 5th Bn The Kngs Regiment badges in blackened brass.

One is exactly as shown in K&K2357 (p 151 Vol 2) with the Old English lettering on the scroll; the other is the same as the post 1927 regular pattern badge in blackened brass, as described by Gaylor (p66). I have been advised by a collector of Kings Regt badges that the K&K2357 pattern is known as the hybrid badge.

Can anyone tell me more about the hybrid badge? When was it worn and when was the regular pattern badge in blackened brass adopted?

Regards

Chris

[max7474]

I am not sure about a hybrid badge. Do you have any pictures?

Alan

[Crunchy]

Hi Alan,

Thank you for your reply.

Unfortunately I don't have a scanner or access to one.

The badge has the horse very similar to the pre 1927 regular badge, although the horse has a fuller mane and tail, and the scroll is the post 1927 scroll in Old English lettering. The only picture I have seen which matches the badge I have is in Kipling and King, Volume 2, p151, badge 2357.

Regards

Chris

[max7474]

I know what you mean - it is the old style horce and ground with a new style of lettering where as the 7th Bn adopted the new style horse and torse of the new Regular badge but all in w/m.

Is the badge one piece or 2 piece?

Alan

[Crunchy]

Alan,

Not sure. But I think it is two piece. Will check tomorrow when I am back at home

Regards

Chris

[JulianB]

Chris

There are 3 Other Ranks badges for the 5th Bn. The first, worn from 1908 on the formation of the TF is a version of the "pre 1926" horse on ground over scroll with THE "KINGS" in Roman letters.

The second is indeed a hybrid, horse on ground over a scroll with KING'S in "Old English" letters. This one was "sealed" in 1927.

The third was the "post 1926" type badge, ie the larger "rocking horse" design over a scroll the same as the last.

All of them are in blackened brass, they should, as Alan asks, be in one piece.

The date at which the horse design changed is usually given as 1926, but The Kingsman (regimental journal) states that this happened in 1928. Looking at when the new patterns were decided upon and actually sealed suggests indeed that it as a long process that happened between 1926 (or even 1925) to 1928.

I don't have any reference books in front of me right now but hopes this helps

I'm interested in the history of the KLR (and a modest collector of King's badges too, though not nearly as knowleagable as someone else I know on this Forum).

Julian

[Crunchy]

Hi Julian,

Many thanks for your reply. Interestingly K&K only show the hybrid badge sealed in 1927 for the 5th (p151 Vol 2) and not the "rocking horse" design in blackened brass, although they do illustrate the 7th Battalion "rocking horse" in WM on the next line (2358).

I wonder why they adopted the hybrid and how long they wore it until going to the "rocking horse" style?

Julian, I suspect that we have already spoken via ebay (9369chris) after I purchased the "rocking horse' 5th Battalion badge. If so, its nice to catch up with you again.... and I am still looking for a "rocking horse" 5th Battalion badge for you over here. No luck to date.

Regards

Chris Roberts

[Crunchy]

Hi Alan and Julian,

I have just checked the hybrid badge - it is stamped in one piece as is the "rocking horse" pattern.

Julian,

My pre - 1926 5th Bn badge looks appears to be two piece, same as the regular badge construction but all brass - the black has rubbed off the high points on the horse and the scroll. The horse appears to attached to the scroll at either end of the ground. Does this mean its a re-strike? It looks old to me and it is of "heavy" guage metal, ie not soft and not able to bend with pressure. Was quite dirty when I recieved it.

Regards

Chris