RFA - what Division/Brigade?

[AngelaC]

Hi there

I am trying to trace which Division and Brigade my grandfather was attached to. He was Gunner 93188 William Jones of the RFA. I have obtained his MIC which does not give details of his Division or Brigade, but does show that his 'Theatre of War first served in' was Egypt, date of entry 19th July 1915. From what limited information I have I know that he joined up in August 1914 whilst living in Stirling in Scotland, and that he fought in Gallipoli and the Western Front. I have in the past contacted a researcher with a view to looking for his service records, but because of the name Jones it would be quite an expensive exercise. I have a copy of the Medal Rolls giving his medal details, but what it also showed was a Driver John Tattersall with the same regimental number as my grandfather - any explanations!! Any help or advise would be much appreciated.

Many thanks - Angela

[ian turner]

Angela,

Your only chance of tracking down your info is from his service records, if they still exist. As you have his army number then it should not be a problem to identify him from other RFA Jones records. A professional researcher should be able to do this, if you cannot go to Kew yourself.

As to the duplicated number - service numbers in those times were not unique, and different units and battalions allocated their own supply of numbers, which were often duplicated like this.(Although of course there could be a clerical error).

How do you know his service number? (Just to be sure you have the correct one!)

Ian

[AngelaC]

Hi Ian, thank you for your reply to my query. I think it will have to be a trip to the Archives sometime in the future. I have been in touch with a researcher, but was told it would be approximately 6 hours work at £20 per hour - quite a lot of money if his records weren't there. I know his regimental number is correct, I am lucky enough to have his medals. Once again thank you for your reply.

Angela

[KONDOA]

I think you need a different researcher!!!

Roop

[essdee]

Angela

The division in all likelyhood will be the 52(Lowland) Division. If you go to the sistersite The Long Long Trail and look at army formations/embarkation dates /52 Division there you will find a nice little write up on them.

As for William Jones's soldier files ( burnt records) at the NA these are the files

WO 363/J 868 Jones Wilfred R - Jones William 1914 - 1920

WO 363/J 515 Jones William - Jones William 1914 - 1920

WO 363/J 592 Jones William - Jones William 1914 - 1920

WO 363/J 593 Jones William - Jones William 1914 - 1920

WO 363/J 594 Jones William - Jones William 1914 - 1920

WO 363/J 595 Jones William - Jones William 1914 - 1920

WO 363/J 596 Jones William - Jones William 1914 - 1920

WO 363/J 597 Jones William - Jones William 1914 - 1920

WO 363/J 598 Jones William - Jones William 1914 - 1920

WO 363/J 599 Jones William - Jones William 1914 - 1920

WO 363/J 600 Jones William - Jones William 1914 - 1920

WO 363/J 601 Jones William - Jones William 1914 - 1920

WO 363/J 602 Jones William - Jones William 1914 - 1920

WO 363/J 705 Jones William - Jones William 1914 - 1920

WO 363/J 706 Jones William - Jones William 1914 - 1920

WO 363/J 869 Jones William - Jones William 1914 - 1920

WO 363/J 870 Jones William - Jones William 1914 - 1920

WO 363/J 707 Jones William - Jones William A 1914 - 1920

WO 363/J 708 Jones William A - Jones William C 1914 - 1920

There are about 18 rolls for William jones, each roll takes about 5/10mins to read through. If he had a middle initial then this will add to the list. If you can make the trip then it might work out cheaper.

Stuart

[ian turner]

Angela,

A serious professional researcher for this matter would charge a flat fee (maybe plus extras for copying docs) but standard charge for basic service record search. I think there are suggestions on this site or LLT.

You can equate such a cost against your personal travel exps to Kew, and also the chances of success from your own endeavours versus an experienced researcher.

On the other hand there is great interest in going to Kew, and enjoying the process yourself, and seeing it all first hand.

Good hunting,

Ian

[Tom A McCluskey]

Angela,

Here is how I found out about my Great-Grandfather's unit:

Ask someone on the forum to take a picture or a copy of the Medal Roll. The rolls are done by unit/sub-unit.

The page sometimes do not have the particular battery or Brigade on it. This was the case with my Great-grandfather.

The sad aspect of most First World War research is that it is easier to trace those that have fallen. Which is a good indicator of unit. When the

On the medal roll the name above my Great-Grandfather was one of the fallen.

109408 Gunner Fyfe, James B. Royal Field Artillery (indication in Right Margin that he had died)

109410 Driver McCluskey, Thomas. Royal Field Artillery

I put Gunner Fyfe's name into the Commonwealth Wargraves Commisiondatabase (CWGC) and his unit was: 37 Division, Ammunition Supply Column, RFA.

I hope this helps,

Aye

Tom McC

[ororkep]

Hi Tom and Angela,

Can other forum members with RFA rolls check this method as if correct it’s a great way to find any RFA unit AND presumably other member gunners as well. The RFA is the one branch that it is so hard to assist new people with as there appears to be no allocation tables for them.

Either this was very lucky, Tom: Did you subsequently prove your man was in the supply column?

I have just checked the other names (KIA, died, etc) over the last half hour on the 11 or so medal rolls I have. However it certainly doesn’t work for RGA ones and mine have abundant concurrent numbers on them. Two sheets actually had the units on anyhow but on a couple of 15 star rolls the date of entry was by each name and this indicated a member of the same battery (actually one of only two).

Whatever the outcome the main thing is that it proves the rolls are always worth checking and one shouldn’t just rely on the information on the Medal Index Cards.

Interested to hear from others once they have checked their RFA rolls.

Hope it works!!!

Paul

[Tom A McCluskey]

Angela,

Paul brings up a good point. I cannot speak for the RGA, but the RFA & RHA were administrated differently. But it is easier to do this with the likes of:

Territorial Forces with post 1916 numbers,

New Army units that are predominantly parochial (but not always) in their recruiting area.

If you look at the family surnames of your his local area; First Names (Scots tended to not have many Ernests & Stanleys - more Williams, Johns, James etc.); and area from of those that died (made easier by CWGC & SNWM), you can tend to see a pattern of soldiers from the North East of Scotland (in my example).

This, and anecdotes from the war that my father has passed onto me, placed him in Gommecourt, Ypres etc.

hope this helps

Aye

Tom McC

[AngelaC]

Thank you to everyone who has replied to my query - you have certainly given me plenty to think about. Regarding the Medal Rolls for my grandfather, unfortunately or fortunately for the men concerned, the soldiers listed all survived the war therefore I cannot look up any 'deceased' soldiers.

Unfortunately my grandfather rarely spoke to my father regarding the war, except to say it was 'hell', therefore my father is unable to give me much information. My great uncle Emlyn - William's brother - was killed during the war, and I have obtained so much information on him despite his service records having been destroyed - Tom's comments regarding 'deceased' soldiers is certainly true.

I know that Emlyn enlisted at Alloa in Scotland, so I assume that my grandfather probably enlisted there. Someone did suggest that he may have been attached to the 52nd (Lowland Division). I know he enlisted in August 1914 and went to Egypt in July 1915 - this was obviously his period of training, but would he have done his training in Scotland or was there a central training area for gunners?

Angela

[Tom A McCluskey]

Angela,

Disregard my post as I have checked the numbers up and down from your relatives and they have been posted to various brigades and Ammunitions supply columns.

Apologies if this has diverted you too much from your research.

The majority have been West coast, Scots (Glasgow & Paisley area) and have went to the following units:

A Battery, 58 Bde RFA

73rd Battery, 5 Bde RFA

A Battery, 51st Bde RFA

A Battery, 82 Bde RFA

D Battery, 59 Bde

17 Division, Ammunition Supply Column

So from this, it looks like there is no correlation. I will see if I can look up something when I go to Woolwich.

Aye

Tom McC