seen on ebay

[Black Watch]

I think the fact that a large percentage of the medals etc sold on e-bay will end up being researched, That to me seems better than gathering dust in an attic of someone who has no interest in them.

While I'm a noob at this (researching) hobby; in a way, researching them honours the recipients. I know I think about them and what their experiences must have been like.

[Sgt_Hazell_Great_Grandson]

How would you propose dealing with all the "John Smith" plaques?

Any that have sadly been lost by the family will probably have been discarded years ago as the are just not interesting enough, unless the poor soul had lost his life of course.

Roland.

[nfh249]

How would you propose dealing with all the "John Smith" plaques?

I'd be quite happy to take a John Smith memorial plaque off your hands

(my great grandfather served, and died, under the alias John Smith )

Regards,

Neil

[kingsnorth36]

I think that I would be more concerned if medals were not being bought and sold by collectors, it demonstrates that they have value and are desired.

Most collectors agree that the ideal place for medals is within the family but in many families there is simply not the interest. Last week I spoke with an old gentleman who's father was DSO and Bar MC Legion D'honneur and a Knight of the Realm. His attitude to his fathers gongs was dismissive to say the least.

Remember the bad old days when War Medals were being melted down by the hundred. Thanks to the increase in interest and collectors this will not happen again.

On a more up to date note the Ministry of Defence are trying to find a way of stopping servicemen selling their medals on E-Bay and then requesting a duplicate! with Modern groups fetching a premium in some cases it is proving a big temptation.

DCWUK you should be congratulated on an interesting first post, the response to it has demonstrated the level of healthy debate alive and well in the forum.

[HarryBettsMCDCM]

On a more up to date note the Ministry of Defence are trying to find a way of stopping servicemen selling their medals on E-Bay and then requesting a duplicate!

It is & has always been a punishable offence for serving personnel to dispose of their Medals,so presumably the legislation is in place,but as usual,not being acted upon.

unless the poor soul lost his life of course...

Errr... the main prerequisite for the issue of a Plaque was the death of the Serviceman in question...

[Sgt_Hazell_Great_Grandson]

Errr... the main prerequisite for the issue of a Plaque was the death of the Serviceman in question...

Thanks for letting me know that.

Roland.

[lynnlambert]

Sad business, good on the one hand if it is treasured by a collector, but sad to think that family may be looking for it. I wonder if the owner did make any efforts to return it to the family.

[birkettm]

I think the fact that a large percentage of the medals etc sold on e-bay will end up being researched, That to me seems better than gathering dust in an attic of someone who has no interest in them.

Succinct and to the point. The same applies for gathering dust in a museum archive.

[Kath]

Thanks, Harry.

Found:

http://www.rushmoor.gov.uk/index.cfm?articleid=207

http://www.surreymuseums.org.uk/museums/RLC.htm

Kath.

[Doug Johnson]

I am not a medal collector as such but the first medal I got was my maternal grandfathers VM which together with the BWM had been played with by my mother and her brothers. Unfortunately the BWM had been lost but I was able to get a replacement from the MoD together with his WWII defence medal. My paternal grandfathers medals followed (14 trio with TEM) from my uncle. My father had never bothered to apply for his WWII medals but did so about 20 years ago after I bugged him enough so they are now with me. When I remarried a few years ago I found my wife's GGF's (casualty pair) battered medals in a junk box, BWM missing its suspender and the Victory medal ring twisted all sans ribbons but now repaired with ribbons. Her GF's WWII medals likewise had never been claimed (another casualty) but her mother successfully claimed them this year. I'm pleased to say all are now in good hands and I hope will remain in the family for many generations however the previous indifference in the medals is why so many end up on e-bay. The worst I read on e-bay was a guy selling "my grandfathers" medals.

Doug

PS I read somewhere that many plaques were donated by their recipients to be melted down to create war memorials.

[Ilbury Welsh]

[1 the medal collectors who think why not for a variety of reasons, some good some greed]

Harry, I am not sure Welshdoc was talking of "financial greed" I read it as greed in owning large numbers of medals/plaques but I may be wrong......

John

[HarryBettsMCDCM]

1}I am not sure Welshdoc was talking of "financial greed"

2}I read it as greed in owning large numbers of medals/plaques but I may be wrong......

Not guilty on the the 1st Charge

Hang Me regarding the 2nd Charge~Guilty as H*ll!

[Black Watch]

Unfortunately the BWM had been lost but I was able to get a replacement from the MoD

This is possible? I'd dearly like to replace my families missing WW1 medals. If it is, can someone let me know how to go about it?

[HarryBettsMCDCM]

Ironically dcwuk; you have chosen a Plaque that I have the highest bid on @ present!!~wish me luck!!!!

The Patron Saint of Medal Collectors {St.Rowland of the Five Cleavers} must have been shining on this happy l'il old bunny,as no further bids were placed on this Plaque & I am now the proud custodian,for the foreseeable future;of the aforementioned Plaque.

Private William George Smith~Chappell ,born,16th March 1896,Mother lived Eltisley[eldest son*],Huntingdonshire;William was married to Mary Ann Smith~Chappell,nee Cilderley,& had a daughter,Vera May,born 24th May 1915 & lived St Neots,being employed by a Mr G.How Topham,Eltisley as a Farm Labourer,enlisted Huntingdon,November 1915;1536;The Huntingdonshire Cyclist Battalion Hunts Cyclist Battalion Link:,transferred to 1/1st Cambridgeshire Regiment TF ;with number 328240 .Lewis Gun Section

Killed in Action {Gassed,when a Gas Shell fell amongst him & his Lewis Gun Crew,& he removed his mask ,due to the feeling of extreme nausea;despite the repeated attempts of his Comrades to assist him keep it on} 29th October 1917,aged 21,when the 1/1st returned to Tower Hamlets.

Commemorated on Special Memorial {ie:"Known To Be Buried In This Cemetery"}#1 @ Voormezeele Enclosure Cemetery nos 1 & 2;Ieper.

*His Brother,Albert John was KiA with 59th MGC on 21st March 1918.

Both are among the Men commemorated on Memorial Plaques mounted on either side of the Memorial Lych Gate @ Eltisley Church,Near St.Neots,Huntingdon. Eltisley Roll Of Honour Link of some coincidence a descendant,a Mr Vic Smith~Chappell is shown resting on the Lych Gate on this memorial site!

If anyone has/hears of his BWM/Victory{+ possibly TFWM?} Pair,or any of them I would appreciate their contacting me.

[HarryBettsMCDCM]

This is possible? I'd dearly like to replace my families missing WW1 medals.

The Army Medal Office no longer Re~issue WW1 Medals & have not done so for around 2 decades now,it was possible up to around the early 1980s for the original recipient or immediate NoK to obtain by purchase replacement or duplicate offical re~issues,as can still be obtained for WW2 & later awards that have been lost stolen or destroyed,{or not issued in the first place~late claims,which are free initially}but the issuing of WW1 Medals has ceased.

[Black Watch]

Thought it was too good to be true

[Doug Johnson]

Got the replacement in the 1980's. It is fully engraved as per the original but has a small incuse R at 2 O'Clock on the rim. It cost about £6.50 at the time which I thought was good value. You also needed to demonstrate that it was genuinely lost. My understanding is also that they have stopped issuing them but someone swore blind the other day that they were still available.

If you want some medals to put a display together then the cheapest way is to buy pairs off e-bay and if you need a star then a replacement from one of the dealers who deal in such things. They will never be associated with the original recipient anyway and if they are in a frame no one but you and an expert will know they are not the real ones. Then one day the originals may turn up. It is always worth putting the name (not smith or brown) in a saved e-bay search which then notifies you if that name turns up.

Doug

Doug

[HarryBettsMCDCM]

My understanding is also that they have stopped issuing them but someone swore blind the other day that they were still available.

Your understanding is right Doug,

"Someone" can swear all they like but the AMO stopped re~issues of WW1 awards around the same time as the MiC were released to the Public Domain @ the then PRO{long before they went online}this doesn't apply to later awards such as WW2;IGS,AGS,CSM; GSMs etc;which can still,providing proof of loss can be shown,along with entitlement & pre payment be re~issued{after a lengthy delay}

[Andrew Upton]

Your understanding is right Doug,

"Someone" can swear all they like but the AMO stopped re~issues of WW1 awards around the same time as the MiC were released to the Public Domain @ the then PRO{long before they went online}this doesn't apply to later awards such as WW2;IGS,AGS,CSM; GSMs etc;which can still,providing proof of loss can be shown,along with entitlement & pre payment be re~issued{after a lengthy delay}

Except there was a thread on this forum quite a while ago, complete with pictures, that illustrated that if the original WW1 medals had not been issued, for all the fact that the AMO claim not to issue them anymore, if you kick up enough fuss for long enough they will still issue them, just wish I could find the thread!

[steve white]

Your obvious glee at obtaining this death plate is in my opinion obscene. I come from a family of soldiers some who fought and died in both world wars and i have their medals they were earnt with blood and i would not part with them for any amount of money. I trust you will try and find living members of this mans family and ask them if they would like this plate as a reminder of this mans awfull death and sacrifice.

[roy litchfield]

Hello Harry Betts,

Pleased to see you were sucessfull in bringing the Smith-Chappell plaque back to East Anglia. Don't know where the medals are, but I'm looking after the medals and plaques to the Hayden brothers and Frank Riseley, also from Eltisley.

Eltisley is a lovely village where you can still watch cricket on the green.

Best wishes Roy

[HarryBettsMCDCM]

Cheers Roy!

Glad someone appreciates what we do!

For the uninitated:~

I have been Collecting Campaign & Gallantry Medals & Decorations;including any associated Commemorative Plaques;{The correct nomenclature for them by the way!} for 46 + Years now,from a very early age,having them for Christmas & Birthdays & spending my saved pocket money @ aged 8,preferring to buy a 1914 Star Trio,or a Queen's South Africa,from Flea Markets,Junk Shops,Antique Shops,Collectors Centres,even saving some from the Dustbins of Brentwood!,etc;when other lads were having Scalextric,Railway Train Sets & the like or buying Bars of Chocolate,Jamboree Bags & Fizzy Drinks,or Toys,with theirs!.

As I grew older & relatively more affluent I purchased more medals from various sources,including many directly from Recipients & Families; who had no one to leave them to,or simply preferred cash to "Old Medals" lying in the drawer,& were & still are in many cases extremely happy that someone is interested & is caring for the Medals of their forebears,as I continued Collecting I began after not so many years to become interested in the Recipients of these discs & stars & crosses,& began a life long{so far} interest,nay;love affair with Medals & the research of their "Winners",after some years & on moving to sunny Cambridgeshire,some 26 years ago I began to specialize & collect to the local Cambridgeshire Regiment TF & TA;& its predecessors,hence my particular interest & joy in accquiring this particular plaque,to lay alongside those awards & plaques;of many of his Comrades in Arms,having built up a comprehensive Collection & file on the 1/1st Cambridgeshire Regiment TF in WW1 & TA in WW2,along with the 6th {Service} Bn,Northamptonshire Regt & various other unusual groups to various British & Empire units;researching as often as availability,time & funds allow as much as possible about the aforementioned Recipients.

I do not begrudge my neighbour his BMW,or my other one his Spanish Holidays,but I choose to spend my money in the legal pursuit of my lifelong hobby,buying Medals that other people are pleased to offer,either privately,via Online or Public Auctions,Dealers Lists,Fairs,etc.I certainly see nothing "Obscene" in being pleased about adding a further item to one's collection & doing the necessary research,as I doubt would any other Collector,be it of Medals,Penny Blacks,Faberge Eggs or Bugattis.I didn't steal it,or cheat the family out of it; I paid the market price in a Worldwide Public Auction,presumably any descendant/relative{s} of Mr S~C would have had just as much chance of bidding as I had,had they been @ all interested<::>I refer to my previous statements~Initially in virtually ALL cases it is the Family that disposes of them in the first place~Where else could they come from???

I have stated previously on a number of ocassions,that I do not see it as my job,nor responsibility;to seek to return items of Militaria to disperate Families,who may then resell them yet again,even if they wanted them,how many would be prepared to pay for them?I am not a Charity,I seek to collect for my personal pleasure,with my funds,to preserve the memories of those men whose awards I am PROUD to be the present curator & custodian of.

They too could if their mood took them Collect such things,many do collecting to only the Family name,others have no interest what so ever in what Grandad,or even Dad did!why we,as Collectors, should be pilloried for enjoying what we do totally escapes me,are we expected to be miserable @ accquiring an addition to our Collections??,it in no way detracts from the respect we show & give to the Recipient's memory,if no family ever sold the Awards granted to their forebears there would be none to collect,but in the Real World not everyone has the same ethic,no one blinks when the Awards of a notable Field Marshall are sold through Sotheby's or Christie's,so why get anal when Joe Bloggs{him again}sells his great uncles medals & plaque through ebay,it is a fact of life.

I do not glorify in the death of "my men" but attempt to do the best to glorify & commemorate their often short lives,as can be seen from reading the research culled from various sources posted about 'W G S-C' & other recipients whose details I have from time to time posted here & elsewhere!

Anyone who has bothered to read my signature & that of many many Forum members can see that the loss of many Relatives in time of War has no exclusivity.

[Soren]

dcw,

If your not sure about this item, then you should see the plaques that have been turned into clocks!

Each to their own, as they say.

Roxy

Please Roxy,

you are joking? surely??

[Soren]

Your obvious glee at obtaining this death plate is in my opinion obscene. I come from a family of soldiers some who fought and died in both world wars and i have their medals they were earnt with blood and i would not part with them for any amount of money. I trust you will try and find living members of this mans family and ask them if they would like this plate as a reminder of this mans awfull death and sacrifice.

Probably them wot flogged it......

[HarryBettsMCDCM]

"Plaque Clocks"

Sadly no Soren,this appalling practice occured in the late 1980s,early 1990s by a northern dealer who specialised in Plaques,he was however castigaed by the Medal Media,OMRS, & fraternity as a whole & capitulated,vowing not to proceed further & manufacture any more Plaque Clocks,& sell no more other than those he had in stock,{fortunately a very smalll number,as the demand thank goodness was not there}There was a thread here,on them recently as one appeared on eBay a few months ago & caused some consternation as would be expected.