Raster Scanning Posted 6 April , 2008 Author Share Posted 6 April , 2008 Excellent Richard. Glad the picture location is confirmed as I really was not sure it was Bedford before. Came across this in the Biggleswade Chronicle October 6th 1914. Sadly it appears that James Wilson did not survive the war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raster Scanning Posted 6 April , 2008 Author Share Posted 6 April , 2008 And this on the same page, I wonder if this is something to do with the unidentified soldiers in Renhold with the white hat bands? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raster Scanning Posted 6 April , 2008 Author Share Posted 6 April , 2008 Has anyone seen this mans grave? He was a National Reservist who received a full military funeral, he is not listed on CWGC site and not listed on the rootsweb list of military burials in the cemetary. Biggleswade Chronicle 15-1-15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 6 April , 2008 Share Posted 6 April , 2008 Is this in reference to the "Shanbrook Railway Disaster?" I don't really know the details but I have seen a couple of postcards (I think maybe Blake and Edgar?) thus entitled. EDIT: I just checked the Sharnbrook disaster was in 1909 and was a crash involving two freight trains Regarding the "sham battle" I think you might be correct. There are several exercises mentioned in Alexander Rule's account (and in McConachie). As I mentioned earlier, one of the things I find interesting about the rather slim descriptions of training that I have come across is it still (in early 1915) seems to be dedicated to a mobile war of march, encounter etc which suggest to me that the experience of the Western Front must have been something the troops learned "on the job" I was wondering, going through this thread again - is there a list in existence of the Blake and Edgar pictures/numbers obviously John you have an excellent collection of them - and Richard and I have odd ones, I wondered if there is any informed guess as to how many pictures there were in the original series? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 6 April , 2008 Share Posted 6 April , 2008 I have been searching Ancestry for a while now looking for any sign of J J Bothwell and am comng up empty. I can't even find a record of his death. I wonder if there is a typo? Rothwell perhaps? I'll keep digging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 6 April , 2008 Share Posted 6 April , 2008 Death of a James J Rothwell 1872-1915 is recorded in the Bedfordshire listing. I think this may be the chap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raster Scanning Posted 6 April , 2008 Author Share Posted 6 April , 2008 Must be him, wel done. Still not on CWGC site though, must have a private stone. It seems he has been missed. I would like to see his grave and do a bit more research when next in Bedford. At 43 he would have been an ex full time soldier, in the reserve as he was too old for active service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgalley Posted 6 April , 2008 Share Posted 6 April , 2008 Some thoughts ... I came across a couple of postcards (I think, B&E) in the "Chrystal Collection" lodged in Bedfordshire Archives showing marching column(s) of Highland troops with white bands 'round their glengarries. I didn't acquire scans of these images as I'd exhausted my pocket money(!) by that stage. Next time! So, there is some photographic evidence if any is required. As far as J.J. R/Bothewell is concerned, 'Friends of Foster Hill Road Cemetery' would probably be able to give a reasonably quick pin-point location of where the grave is situated. Would you like me to try and help from this end? As far as training for trench warfare is concerned, from what I've read most of this did happen "on the job" in the early months of the war. In early 1915 the commanders, tacticians, planners etc. would still have been getting their heads around the fact that they were not fighting in the way that they had trained for prior to the outbreak of war. I imagine there would have been quite a lag between the ways of the Front filtering their way down to training Battalions back in the UK at that time. I read recently that training only started to include trench warfare in early 1915. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 6 April , 2008 Share Posted 6 April , 2008 As far as J.J. R/Bothewell is concerned, 'Friends of Foster Hill Road Cemetery' would probably be able to give a reasonably quick pin-point location of where the grave is situated. Would you like me to try and help from this end? I just sent an email to Martin Edmonds who was running (? - at least updating) the nice Bedfordshire Roll of Honour site including this query I am not sure if he is still on the forum or not... if you could contact the Foster Hill Road folks that would be good. I assume reservists do not qualify for CWGC headstones? (perhaps we could check with Terry D. -moderator) I will have a poke around ancestry military records on the off chance there are any records if he was a pre-war regular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgalley Posted 8 April , 2008 Share Posted 8 April , 2008 Hi, I thought I'd let you know that I've just posted a Bedford related photo in 'Soldiers'. The topic name is 'A conundrum'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
high wood Posted 12 April , 2008 Share Posted 12 April , 2008 Another Bedford group photograph. reverse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 17 April , 2008 Share Posted 17 April , 2008 Most recent (and extravagant! ) purchase. MG. Section of 1/8th Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders - Bedford Feb 1915. The card is signed / dated on the back (15/2/15) by Pte 1851 Tommy Macartney, C Company, No8 Platoon, 1st8thArgyll and Sutherland Highlanders Bedford, and addressed to Nellie(?) McIntyre, 1 George Drive. So Govan (??) Glasgow. A little bit of digging shows 1851 Pte Macartney became 23700 Sgt Macartney 152nd MGC and was killed in action 13/11/16 at the age of 23. He is buried in Mailly Wood Cemetery. I cannot be certain but penciled on the back of the card in a modern hand is (2nd rt kneeling) so if this is to be trusted this is Pte Tommy Macartney. Location is another one for Piper to puzzle. To me it looks a bit like a bowling pavillion or some such, in a public park but as it is a wooden structure I doubt it survives... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgalley Posted 17 April , 2008 Share Posted 17 April , 2008 MG. Section of 1/8th Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders - Bedford Feb 1915. Location is another one for Piper to puzzle. To me it looks a bit like a bowling pavillion or some such, in a public park but as it is a wooden structure I doubt it survives... Money well and wisely invested, I'd say. A very nice photo indeed. Thanks for sharing it. As for location? Could well be one of the bowling greens in Town. Maybe Russell Park, or Goldington Road / Bushmead Avenue. I agree that it's going to be difficult to get a positive i.d. on the place, but I'll give it more thought and see if inspiration comes my way! The buildings in the right background might be able to help. I haven't had time lately to do any more then and now shots, but hope to get some posted over the coming weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgalley Posted 19 April , 2008 Share Posted 19 April , 2008 Here's a photo that was taken on the occasion of HRH Princess Louise's visit to Bedford on 4th Feb 1915. I believe that the Royal car is the subject of the picture as it bears a striking resemblance to the vehicle shown in photos of the King's two visits to Bedford during WW1. Also note that a Colonel is adding his weight at the front of the car, which suggests that it's no ordinary vehicle in need of help. This photo was taken at Putnoe Park, Bedford where the Princess inspected "her" Argyll and Sutherland Brigade. On 4th Feb 1915, Pte Hugh McArthur (Signaller, 1/8 Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders) made the following entry in his diary: "February 4 No parade in the morning. Dinner at 12. We paraded at 1pm and marched to Putnoe Park where we were inspected by H.R.H. Princess Louise of Argyll to whom the 8th Battalion belongs. The whole of the A&S Brigade were there. We had a march past H.R.H. on our way home (Eyes right)" The original photo comes via the Bedfordshire and Luton Archives Service. I will endeavour to find the precise location for a comparison shot of the area as it appears nowadays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgalley Posted 19 April , 2008 Share Posted 19 April , 2008 Here's a comparison between today and 1915. This is Lansdowne Road, Bedford which was within the Gordon Highlander's billeting area. At the time of the original WW1 photo and until very recently the buildings belonged to Bedford College (most recently, Bedford University). However the college / university has relocated to a campus on the other side of town and the original buildings have been "Acquired for clients" and now stand, sealed off, behind steel mesh barriers. One hopes that the developers will only be allowed to rework the building's interiors, although this being Bedford it's more than likely that the bulldozers will be kept busy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSMMo Posted 19 April , 2008 Share Posted 19 April , 2008 Whatever they (developers) do, we are fortunate (and grateful) that you took the time to compile the comparison photos. They add a contemporary touch and a different kind of reality to the history we are all interested in. Mike Morrison Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 19 April , 2008 Share Posted 19 April , 2008 Indeed - Thanks Richard. and inspired by (but without the skill exhibited in) the colourising thread.... I couldn't resist as the 1/4th were headquartered in this street. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raster Scanning Posted 20 April , 2008 Author Share Posted 20 April , 2008 Simon great picture that will be of interest to Mike. Richard the before and after pics are great also the car in Putnoe, do you think the houses are on Kimbolton Road? Chris, I think you are too modest, the colour picture is very well done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 20 April , 2008 Share Posted 20 April , 2008 "Comment on John's second Russell Park picture - Althought they are facing away from the camera, the soldiers appear to be wearing 1903 bandolier equipment which is I think relatively unusual for pictures of the Highlanders at Bedford, suggesting perhaps that it is either an early picture taken soon after their arrival or that it is one of the less photographed units. The only time I have seen the bandoliers in Bedford pics before is on mounted troops and artillery." What about these, are some of these also wearing bandoliers or is it my eyes? http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k116/ras...anning/No24.jpg Indeed...and I think the men pushing the car in Richards recent posting are too! I am revising my view it is unusual in these pictures Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Foster Posted 20 April , 2008 Share Posted 20 April , 2008 (but without the skill exhibited in) the colourising thread.... . Don't kid yourself Chris, this is very Good!! Regards Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 21 April , 2008 Share Posted 21 April , 2008 (but without the skill exhibited in) the colourising thread.... .. Don't kid yourself Chris, this is very Good!! Regards Chris Thanks Chris - although it is not a patch on your work - which is far more subtle and nuanced... mine resembles the coloured pics of the period I think...yours are much more varied in tones and texture. Anyway it was a wet miserable day yesterday so I was stuck inside.... I think this one is crying out for you to do it Chris...I'm sure Richard (Piper) would send you a high res copy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgalley Posted 21 April , 2008 Share Posted 21 April , 2008 ... the car in Putnoe, do you think the houses are on Kimbolton Road? John, The houses could be on Kimbolton Road, but more likely to be Putnoe Lane, I think. As you know that whole area has been heavily developed since the end of WW2. Putnoe Park still exists (I think!!) but it's surrounded by one big rabbit warren of housing estates. I will try and track down the precise location of the pic, when I next get an opportunity to go wandering. All the best Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgalley Posted 21 April , 2008 Share Posted 21 April , 2008 Here's another comparison. The original photo comes courtesy of the Bedfordshire and Luton Archive Service (Z50/9/126) and has been captioned by the archivist: "6th Gordon Highlanders leaving St Pauls Weslyan chapel, in 1st World War". [The following has been edited in the light of feedback received from Forum member, 'Raster Scanning'. My thanks to 'Raster' for his input] The Weslyan Chapel was demolished to make way for Bedford Central Library, whose entrance canopy is visible on the right hand side of the colour picture. The grandly porticoed building next door to the chapel from whose entrance the photos are taken still stands, in fine fettle and is now known as the Harpur Suite. During WW1 this building was known as 'The Assembly Rooms'. The building opposite the chapel was Bedford Modern School, before that establishment decamped to a new campus on the edge of town in the 1970s. Much of the original and imposing facade still stands, but the interior now serves as the Harpur Centre shopping mall. The area in between the chapel and old school is known as Harpur Square and still provides an area for much bustling activity with the weekly market etc. (The "now" photo was taken early on a Sunday morning a couple of weeks ago ... hence it's a bit of a deserted scene). More to come in the fullness of time if people are still interested? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgalley Posted 21 April , 2008 Share Posted 21 April , 2008 Not all were Scots, Great photos, thanks. It did occur to me that the Highland Division's held much of the limelight on this wonderful thread and that there were many other military visitors to the Town & county during the course of the War. Whether these made quite the same impact on Bedford society as the Scots is debatable, but they have an equally important place in our local history. All the best Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgalley Posted 21 April , 2008 Share Posted 21 April , 2008 Last for now. ... An unidentified unit who appear to have men in civilian clothes marching at the back. I'm not sure if there's any connection, but this photo was taken by A. D. Sadler (Photographer, Bedford) from the window of his fiancee's first floor flat at the southern end of Bedford Town bridge. His daughter (now in her 80s), who very kindly shared the image with me, gives the following information on the reverse of the original print ... "Derby Volunteers. Bedford, probably spring, or early summer 1915. "Derby" men on parade in St Mary's St, Bedford ..." I'm presuming that these men were making their way to Kempston Barracks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now