Bedfordshire WW1

[rgalley]

I hope people will excuse the fact that it's not directly related to things military, but here's a photo I came across in my old School's archive a couple of days ago. In itself it is a wonderful and evocative image. It shows the School's 1st VIII in front of the boathouse on the Embankment, Bedford c. July 1914.

The crew were (details in brackets given in school magazine's roll of honour as at Feb 1917):

D E Logan (commissioned into Royal Artillery)

G G C Bull (commissoned into 6 Bedford Regt)

H M Woodyer (commissioned into Cheshire Regt)

C K Roylance

C C J Kellie

J M Hobbs

H [?] B Tanqueray

W S Davis [believed killed Arras, March 1918 - Lt in 5 Bedford Regt, attached to 4 Battalion]

More research will be needed to fill the gaps in relation to the others.

All in all, pretty thought provoking

[high wood]

Piper,

thank you for posting the comparison photograph of the Grafton Academy it was wonderful to see that it has survived. Saddened to hear that it is under threat of redevelopment. To misquote Philip Larkin, "and that will be (another bit of) England gone".

[Raster Scanning]

Richard.

Excellent to see another location of a picture identified.

I think somewhere else on this thread I have posted a picture (pre war) of the front of the building in Midland Road.

Really pleased to see some before and after pictures as well, keep them coming please.

Now for a strange question.

Is the picture of the BS VIII marked 'Sweetland Bedford' on the back?

[rgalley]

John,

Yes, the BS VIII is stamped 'Sweetland Bedford' on the back.

Is it an image that you're already familiar with?

All the best

Richard

[rgalley]

John,

Many thanks for sharing the photos. I'd better get identifying!

All the best

Richard

[rgalley]

Been out and about in Bedford with the camera this morning. Thought these might be of interest ...

I haven't had the time, nor do I possess the technology to do a perfect job on the merged images, I'm afraid, but hopefully you'll get the gist ...

I originally thought that the picture showed the troops marching onto Newnham Street from Kingsley Road, with Russell Park in the far distance. Right street ... wrong direction!!! They're turning out of Kingsley Road into Shaftesbury Avenue which runs alongside the eastern edge of Russell Park. The Park is behind the photographer(s). The pipe band on the right of the picture is drawn up in the middle of Shaftesbury Avenue, facing away from the Embankment and river.

[rgalley]

Here's another A&SH image that Raster posted quite a long time ago. This was taken in Rothsay Road, Bedford, looking towards the junction with Castle Road and about 100 yards from the junction with the Embankment. I will post the photo of the house the men are posing in front in a mo ...

[rgalley]

Here are the houses on Rothsay Road, Bedford, that "No. 10 Platoon 6th A&SH" was photgraphed outside in 1915. The one shown in the background of the original 1915 image (the right hand one of the two in this shot) has recently had an extension built on the side.

[rgalley]

Here's a Blake and Edgar shot (sorry about the quality of the reproduction) and the caption reads: "5th Gordons leaving Bedford May 2nd '15". The troops are marching towards Prebend Street river bridge, away from the town and are likely to be heading for the temporary railway platforms on Ampthill Road which had been erected specifically for military use (e.g. movement of large numbers of men) at the beginning of the War (photo: Bedfordshire and Luton Archives Service).

Note that they still carry long Lee Enfields and are wearing long puttees instead of spats. I assume that the cloth bags that some of them have hanging from their shoulders contain food for the journey?

The comparison shot was taken this morning. The 'Shine Hand Car Wash' sign hangs on the side of what was the 'Coach and Horses'. The building opposite this is shown at the edge of the original 1915 image and is now Sherwoods antiques shop (and has been for donkey's years!). The electricity works that the troops are passing by in the foreground lay derelict for many years and was eventually demolished about 7 years ago.

[rgalley]

33 De Parys Ave was occupied (according to my 1914 Kelly's Directory) by Maurice and Humphrey Hime.

It would be good to try and get a picture of no 33 as it is now.

One more job to add to the list.

Cheers.

Well, better late than never!! Here are a couple of photos of 33 De Parys Avenue. This building stands on the junction of De Parys Avenue and Burnaby Road, Bedford. At the other end of Burnaby Road stands Bedford School and home of the 4th Seaforth from Aug - Nov 1914. This building is now owned by the School and serves as one of its "day" houses (used to be known as "Browns" and I think it still is). Little did I realise 30 years, or so, ago that the building where I used to play snooker in between lessons, get changed for sports and generally hang around in, had such a history!

That's it for today folks, but lots more to come if you're still interested!

[4thGordons]

Richard - did you get a picture of 14 Lansdowne Rd? (the 1/4th HQ)? I missed it in the summer

It appears several pictures exist of troops hanging out of windows! (there is a joking article about "Hotel D'empty" (apparent reference to large empty houses into which groups of men were billetted "in Rue De Rothsay")in McConachie

and both published contempraneously (1915) and subsequently (80s) in retrospectives in the Beds Times

Here are two different ones and a modern comparison taken this summer. I don't think either of these are the house you posted above are they? This would suggest at least 3 versions on 3 houses. The unit is not identified in the top picture (from the newspaper) but a version of the lower picture is reproduced in McConachie and attributed as 1/4th Gordons

HOTEL D'Empty Rue de Rothsay!

Chris

[rgalley]

Richard - did you get a picture of 14 Lansdowne Rd? (the 1/4th HQ)? I missed it in the summer

"Hotel D'empty" ... in McConachie and attributed as 1/4th Gordons

Chris

Hi Chris,

I didn't get Lansdowne Road today, but will next time I'm out and about with camera. Will let you have the results asap.

Although Hotel d'Empty does feature several times in different sources, I have to admit to being a wee bit doubtful about it being a Gordons building, given that Rothsay Road was firmly in the A&SH billeting area and quite some distance from the Gordons' main area. Not impossible, of course, but regimental "territories" seem to have been quite strictly adhered to.

Richard

[high wood]

Superb photographs, I am really enjoying seeing these, "then and now" comparisons. Please keep them coming. Simon.

[Raster Scanning]

Richard.

These are great, thanks for posting them. Good to get some identification of the locations. Like Simon, I am really enjoying them.

While talking of billeting areas, some years ago a map appeared in the Eagle Bookshop, in Castle Road. The owner had it on display in the window. It was a large map of Bedford produced by the Beds Times. On it, in red and blue crayon, had been marked the location of billets of the different units around the town.

I asked the owner if he would sell it to me but he declined.

After about a month, the light had faded the information and it was generally unreadable. Shame as it was a unique record.

Not sure where it is, but I did try and copy the info onto a map of my own, I will do some digging today, but after many international moves, I fear it may be lost

Back to Kazakhstan tomorrow, then some new posts!

[4thGordons]

Here is another poor quality one:

B Coy 5th Seaforths - outside another large house - possibly one in Palmeston Street.

[rgalley]

Evenin' all,

Here's a comparison of the Royal visit image originally posted by 4th Gordons and how it looks in 2008. One thing that really struck me when taking photos in town the other day is what a mess a lot of it looks with all the additional street furniture, signage etc. that is the norm these days. Oh heck, I seem to be turning into a grumpy middle-aged man!!!

As I mentioned in an earlier reply to Chris, "in the original image the Royal party is standing at the eastern end of Horne Lane, outside the Civic Theatre with the Corn Exchange in the background. The trees in the background mark the north western corner of St Paul's church yard (St Paul's is Bedford's main church). The view's much the same today. The building on the left of the Corn Exchange has gone and this is now an access lane to the back of the Harpur Suite (ex-Wesleyan Chapel) and Howard Rooms. The building on the other side of the Corn Exchange was the Saracen's Head pub (a spit and sawdust place that had something of a "lively" reputation when I was a lad)".

All the best,

[rgalley]

I'm afraid I'm not getting enough time to try anything fancy with the photos at the moment, but here's a "then and now" comparison with the Bedford School cricket pavilion. The current pavilion appeared during the inter-war period, when the one of pre-WW1 vintage was deemed inadequate. There are now plans to update the current version, but I have to say that the artist's impressions I've seen suggest a sympathetic remodelling. The pavilion served as backdrop for many photographs during the Highlanders' time in Bedford (see some of the images posted previously by High Wood, as examples) as well as being the vantage point for as many others.

I hope this is of interest as I've a few more comparisons to work on ...

Richard

[rgalley]

Here's a "then and now" comparison of the A&SH in Russell Park, Bedford. Russell Park was one of the biggest areas of open ground within the A&SH billeting area and is the location for a number of photographs of open air church parades etc.

The original image comes courtesy of 'Raster Scanning'. The comparison is not easy given that the trees on the edge of the park have grown taller than the houses behind them, thus shielding some of the original roofline. However, this is where they stood ...

Richard

[Raster Scanning]

Richard.

Here are the men of the 1/8th A&SH who enlisted at Bedford and subsequently died.

None actually came from Bedford!

Applin F, 2550, Resident Aldershot

Beveridge Arthur Douglas, 300672, Edinburgh

Cook Alfred, 2818, Barnet

Dale Leslie Joseph, 300742, Walthamstow

Gunn John Alexander, 2587, Bromley

Hackney William, 300847, Longton Staffs

Holman Stanley, 300755, Reigate Surrey

Orford Harry James, 2497, East Ham London

Prale Arthur J, 2230, Shepherd's Bush London

Rochester Frank, 300702, Richmond Yorks

Rowell Henry, 2580, South Shields Durham

Thear Charles, 2496, Reading Berks

more units to follow

[rgalley]

John,

Many thanks for your latest posts. Nice pictures and the list of names is very helpful.

Richard

[rgalley]

John / Richard (et al)

A question out of ignorance, after the various Battalions of the Highland Brigade left Bedford in early 1915 - what happened in Bedford? Did there continue to be a sizeable military establishment there or did it go back to being the "sleepy market town on the Ouse"? Did anyone replace them in using Bedford as a base - did the Socts units retain any official presence there?

Chris,

As I understand it, the Scots had vacated Bedford by June 1915. Those units that had not gone to France were moved to other stations in the UK. The Welsh came in pretty much straight after the last of the Scots left. Anecdotal evidence suggests that the Welshmen were not greatly liked by the local population, generally acquiring a reputation for miserliness, lack of humour and indifference to their hosts. Will do some more work on this, but it's safe to state that Bedford continued to be an important military centre up to the end of the War. Of course, it was to reprise this role in the Second World War. It is probably fair to say that the Yanks who came to be so much a part of Bedford's life in WW2, were the Townsfolks' equivalent of the Highlanders who had arrived 29 years before them ... exotic, generous, well liked and generally well behaved.

Richard

[4thGordons]

Thanks Richard,

Reaching down into the depths of my memory I think there was a welsh unit stationed in/around Rushden for a time also quite early in the war - but I may be misremembering.

Comment on John's second Russell Park picture - Althought they are facing away from the camera, the soldiers appear to be wearing 1903 bandolier equipment which is I think relatively unusual for pictures of the Highlanders at Bedford, suggesting perhaps that it is either an early picture taken soon after their arrival or that it is one of the less photographed units. The only time I have seen the bandoliers in Bedford pics before is on mounted troops and artillery.

Chris

[rgalley]

Done a bit of further research (courtesy of 'The Long, Long Trail') and several Royal Welsh Fusilier TF battalions were based in and around Northampton in late '14, early '15 (hence the Rushden connection), some then moving to Bedford. I apologise for any gaps in the following info as I've not had a lot of time to devote to in depth study!

The Bedford-based units appear to have been:

2/4th (Denbighshire) Battalion (a home service unit): to Bedford July '15 via Northampton, then Cambridge. Moved from Bedford to Aldeburgh Nov '16.

1/5th (Flintshire) Battalion: to Bedford May '15 via Northampton, then Cambridge. Shipped to Gallipoli July '15.

2/5th (Flintshire) Battalion (a home service unit): to Bedford July '15, left November '16

1/6th (Carnarvonshire & Anglesey) Battalion: to Bedford May '15 via Northampton, then Cambridge. Shipped to Gallipoli July '15.

2/6th (Carnarvonshire & Anglesey) Battalion (a home service unit): to Bedford July '15 via Northampton. Moved from Bedford to Southwold Nov '16.

1/7th (Merioneth & Montgomery) Battalion: to Bedford May '15 via Northampton, then Cambridge. Shipped to Gallipoli July '15.

2/7th (Merioneth & Montgomery) Battalion(a home service unit): to Bedford July '15 via Northampton. Moved from Bedford to Wrentham Nov '16.

The 1/4th Battalion The Royal Sussex Regiment: to Bedford May '15 via Cambridge. Shipped to Gallipoli July '15 (part of 53rd (Welsh) Division).

The 1/4th Battalion Cheshire Regiment arrived in Bedford in March '15 as part of the 53rd (Welsh) Division, being shipped to Gallipoli that August.

Several service battalions of the Cheshires were also based in Bedford from mid-'15 to mid-'16.

As the Welsh Division units departed, their place was taken by service battalions (TF) of The Duke of Wellington's (West Riding Regiment) and The Prince of Wales's Own (West Yorkshire Regiment), of 62 Division.

Service (TF) battalions of the Herefordshire Regt, Lincolnshire Regt and South Wales Borderers were also in Bedford in '16 and '17.

I was also intrigued by the bandoliers being worn in the Russell Park pic.

Richard

[rgalley]

NIce one of the tug 'o war final.

Thanks John

[rgalley]

Here's a "then and now comparison" taken in front of the South (rear) facade of Bedford School. The original image, courtesy of Raster Scanning, shows Seaforth Highlanders and I venture 1/4th (TF) given that the Battalion used the School for HQ and billets. The 1/4th Seaforth arrived at Bedford in August 1914 and was one of the first of the Highland Division units to leave the town for France, doing so on 5 November 1914.

Although the School building dates back to the 1890s, it was completely gutted by fire in 1979. By 1981, the shell had been restored and fitted with a new, but sympathetic, interior. To the very left of the building these days is the covered walkway to the Memorial Hall, built to commemorate the Old Bedfordians who died in both World Wars. In the WW1 era, the smooth red brick exterior of the School was almost entirely covered in ivy and this seems to have formed the backdrop for a number of individual portraits of Highlanders.

The boxed area of the "now" photo equates to the area where the men were posing

Regards

Richard