Time-expired territorials

[Martin Perry]

Charles

I have no more real info than this I'm afraid. Thread on eligibility was very interesting and gave me a bit of confidence about my own limited research done to date! Seems like, just because he volunteered to go overseas, he did not necessarily actually go? Still vague as to how to try and establish which Battalions he would have been more likely to have served with - would it have anything to do with geography at all?

Martin

[PPCLI]

Where on earth did you get the info about Blyth?Is he the Sgt A. Blyth who was awarded the M.M.?

Hi George,

The online MICs. However, the 4-digit no. for Sgt A. Blyth should read 4169 (not 4668). Yes, he is Archibald Blyth, MM.

I have had a look through the SWB rolls that I have covering Scottish lowland regiments and have compiled a little list of regt. numbers with their enlistment dates. Straight away I would say that the new 4-digit numbers allocated to George Souness (4208) and Archibald Blyth (4169) don't fit with 8th Royal Scots:

4569 - 18.4.13

4652 - 4.8.14

4744 - 5.10.14

5167 - 28.1.15

5580 - 29.10.15

5819 - 22.2.16

So, 4208 and 4169 pre-date the war for the 8th Bn. However, I'm not going to say that they are definitely not 8th Bn. because you just never know how things were worked out back then. I think it comes back to getting a copy of his medal rolls (all three of them, just to make sure that they agree with one another - they don't always!). I would offer to get them for you, but I probably won't be at Kew again till September (I usually go once a month, but I'm too busy this month).

Re Peter Blyth that I mentioned in my previous post (possibly brother of A. Blyth, MM) - he is listed on SWB roll T.D.266:

325004, Sgt, Blyth Peter, 8 R.Scots, 122346 [sWB badge no.], enlisted 1.4.08, discharged 19.7.17, wounds 392 xvi.

None of this clears anything up, but I thought I'd let you know what I'd found anyway.

Cheers,

Stuart

[dycer]

Stuart,

I appreciate I need to take a trip to Kew and will do it soon.It's geographically easier for me than you anyway.

4208 is definitely a Royal Sots Number per his War and Victory Medal.I fully accept though,that he may have been drafted to another Battalion for a period and returned to the 8th e.g. if you read Jack Alexander's Book on the 16th you'll note that following their losses on the Somme early July 1916 they received a draft of men from the 8th to help bring them back up to strength.I have to admit,though,that I don't think George was ever in the 16th.My Father was a Hearts Fan and had a soft spot for the 16th so I think would have told me if he knew his Brother had ever been a member of the 16th but you never know.Unfortunately he ain't here now to ask.

I do see, though,where you are coming from with the four figure number.A Forum Colleague was kind enough to send me the 1901 Family Census information.George was aged 6 in 1901.My Grandfather was at one time working on a Rifle Range and this may have allowed a young age entry to the TF.From previous discussions the minimum age was 14.His Brother(John) was aged 4 in 1901 and assuming he joined the TF at the same age he would have joined in 1910/11.His Number is 582.

Rhetorical question is.Did the 8th Royal Scots have 3500 recruits,re-enlistments etc between 1910 and 1914?

George

[PPCLI]

Rhetorical question is.Did the 8th Royal Scots have 3500 recruits,re-enlistments etc between 1910 and 1914?

Rhetorical, but I'll give an answer anyway

My answer would be a straightforward, No. I don't have any solid information to back this up, but I can give the example of the 4th and 5th KOSB (TF). Pre-war bith these KOSB units issued men with numbers starting from 1. The 5th KOSB continued in sequential order, when at the outbreak of war they had reached just over 1600. At some period between 1908 and 1914, the 4th KOSB jumped from mid-900s to 4000. During the war the 5th Bn. continued issuing up to 2000, then jumped to 4000 and quite often gave out numbers already being used by the 4th Bn. This type of jumping around continued ending up something like the following:

1-950: both 4th and 5th

950-2000: 5th

4000-4500: both 4th and 5th

4500-6000: 5th

6000-8000: 4th

9000 up: both 4th and 5th

So what I'm trying to say is that the 8th Royal Scots could have done something similar to the 4th KOSB and jumped a block of numbers, which gives the impression of them having several thousand pre-war recruits.

Of course, they may have done nothing of the sort! Ah, the delights of figuring out regimental numbering....

Cheers,

Stuart

[dycer]

Cheers Stuart,

As has been said often on the Forum.

Why on earth were the Service Papers not stored more securely

George

[Stebie9173]

Because it wouldn't make research as much "fun".

Steve.