Borys Posted 25 July , 2006 Share Posted 25 July , 2006 Ahoj! Anybody know, or has pointers to, the Russian strenght on the Estonian Archipelago in August 1915? The islands of Oesel, Dago, Worms and Moon. or Saaremaa, Hiumaa, Vormsi and Muhu, if you like. I know about the coastal defence batteries. What I would like to know is were there any army units there. Borys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themonsstar Posted 27 July , 2006 Share Posted 27 July , 2006 Hi Borys Have you seen a book called " O.U. 6042" Translation of Vice-Admiral Schmidt's Despatch. (The Conquest of the Baltic Islands). This is from the original text, printed by the German Admiral Staff, Berlin 1917, In English November 1919. The second phase of the OP covers the Conquest of Oesel, Moon & Dago,. Cheers Roy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
august g blume Posted 28 July , 2006 Share Posted 28 July , 2006 Hello Borys, Here is some partial information about Russian units that might assist you. I am uncertain about the time frame August 1915. However in September - October 1917, on Oesel Island there was the 107th Division, composed of the 425th Kargopolskiy Infantry Regiment, 426th Ponevezhskiy Infantry Regiment, 427th Pudozhskiy Infantry Regiment and the 428th Lodeinopolskiy Infantry Regiment, some 12,500 men, 64 field guns and 152 machine guns. The 43rd Tserel Battery with 305mm and 152mm guns was on Oesel. There may have been other artillery units there. The 171st Kobrinskiy Infantry Regiment was known on Moon Island. There may have been other units on Moon. There is a high probability that there were (as yet unidentiified) garrisons on both Worms and Dago and quite possibly Runo. I am not suggesting that this information is complete, but perhaps it will be useful to you. Please visit my website www.warchron.com about Russian in WWI. Perhaps you will find it interesting. Kind regards, agblume Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borys Posted 1 August , 2006 Author Share Posted 1 August , 2006 Please visit my website www.warchron.com about Russian in WWI. Perhaps you will find it interesting. Kind regards, agblume Ahoj! The problem is that I am after the strength two years earlier ... Maybe some Russian Army OdeB gives the date when the 107th was moved there. It seems to be a wartime formation, formed in the Lake Onega district. So maybe when was the 107th formed? Now, to other things - I've been to your site. Very nice. FANTASTIC maps! I almost wet myself! However, your forum does not seem to like me. I signed up (Borys - elfkabezhalter@wp.pl) and after about a week am still waiting for confirmation to join the site. Borys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
august g blume Posted 1 August , 2006 Share Posted 1 August , 2006 Hello Borys, Sorry that I was not able to help you with 1915 details. I will try to learn more about when the 107th was formed. Glad you liked our maps on Warchron. Apologies for your difficulty in registering at Warchron. I will have my friend and webmaster Larry Seawell contact you shortly. Thanks for your kind patience. Cheers, agblume Ahoj! The problem is that I am after the strength two years earlier ... Maybe some Russian Army OdeB gives the date when the 107th was moved there. It seems to be a wartime formation, formed in the Lake Onega district. So maybe when was the 107th formed? Now, to other things - I've been to your site. Very nice. FANTASTIC maps! I almost wet myself! However, your forum does not seem to like me. I signed up (Borys - elfkabezhalter@wp.pl) and after about a week am still waiting for confirmation to join the site. Borys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duckman Posted 2 August , 2006 Share Posted 2 August , 2006 I will try to learn more about when the 107th was formed. August, I'm sure you have this stuff, but taking the chance to chime in: 107th Div was formed in 1914 as part of the 3rd wave mobilisation (equivalent of German Landwehr / French Territorials). The 171st Kobrinskiy Infantry Regiment was part of 43rd Division, the other regiments being 169th Novo-Trokskiy, 170th Molodechnenskiy and 172nd Lydskiy. Oddly, an exact translation for the Russian title of the 172nd would be "Leeds Rifles", but I think the BEF already had already collared that name! 43rd was a 1st Line division (part of the active pre-war Army). I don't have OOB details, but it seems probable that 43rd Division would also have furnished the other garrisons you mention. There were also 6 Baltic Cavalry regiments and some Latvian Rifle Brigades that might have been in the area. Info from Andrew Rukkas' now defunct "Russian Army in WWI" site at the Taras Shevchenko Kiev University. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borys Posted 2 August , 2006 Author Share Posted 2 August , 2006 Ahoj! I'm sure you have this stuff, but taking the chance to chime in: I don't - very helpful. 107th Div was formed in 1914 as part of the 3rd wave mobilisation (equivalent of German Landwehr / French Territorials). So it is possible that they had been "stranded" on the islands since late 1914 ... The 171st Kobrinskiy Infantry Regiment was part of 43rd Division, the other regiments being 169th Novo-Trokskiy, 170th Molodechnenskiy and 172nd Lydskiy. Oddly, an exact translation for the Russian title of the 172nd would be "Leeds Rifles", but I think the BEF already had already collared that name! 43rd was a 1st Line division (part of the active pre-war Army). Interesting - a division from the Kowno (although I'm not sure, without a map, in hich gubernia Nowe-Troki were) and Wilno gubernias. Very mixed. Polish (varying percentage in all four regiments) Belarus (Molodechno, Kobryn, Lida) Lithuanian (Non-Troki) recruits. With a sprinkling of Ukranians in the Kobryn regiment and Lithuanian Tatars (the original Uhlans) in all four. Yes, phonetically it would be quite similar to Leeds - pronounced "Leeda". They would by the "Lida Rifles" I don't have OOB details, but it seems probable that 43rd Division would also have furnished the other garrisons you mention. There were also 6 Baltic Cavalry regiments and some Latvian Rifle Brigades that might have been in the area. Info from Andrew Rukkas' now defunct "Russian Army in WWI" site at the Taras Shevchenko Kiev University. Seems a lot - a full 3rd rate division, parts of a 1st rate division. And the Opolchenye too. Thank you! Borys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duckman Posted 2 August , 2006 Share Posted 2 August , 2006 Interesting - a division from the Kowno (although I'm not sure, without a map, in hich gubernia Nowe-Troki were) and Wilno gubernias. Very mixed. From what I have seen, most Russian divisions were drawn from four nearby, but not necessarily adjacent, areas. For a Division from the eastern Ukraine or Central Russia, you would expect the component regiments to be pretty similar ethnically. This Div was formed in the corner of Belarus by "borrowing" a neighbouring Lithuanian regiment. There are others that mix western Ukranian and Moldovan units, Polish and Ruthenian etc in the same way. Polish (varying percentage in all four regiments) Belarus (Molodechno, Kobryn, Lida) Lithuanian (Non-Troki) recruits. With a sprinkling of Ukranians in the Kobryn regiment and Lithuanian Tatars (the original Uhlans) in all four. WOW! Where on earth are you sourcing information on the ethnic compostion of these units? Seems a lot - a full 3rd rate division, parts of a 1st rate division. And the Opolchenye too. Remember, I'm referring to the info August provided which relates to 1917. At that point this area was under direct threat, so perhaps not so surprising. Referring to Augusts comments - at least some of the other islands were certainly garrisoned as well - I read a report on the German landings and (IIRC) Worms was mentioned as being opposed. regards Duckman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borys Posted 2 August , 2006 Author Share Posted 2 August , 2006 Ahoj! As to the ethnic composition of those regiments - I simply know where these towns are, and I know the crazy quilt pattern of nationalities which lived there before WWII. There were islands and peninsulas of Polish speakers separating the Belarus and Lithuanian ethnic areas which ran from Belostok to Dyneburg (Daugavpils). And scattered Polish minorities (mostly urban) all over the place. The Tatars were also all over the place, but in villages. Kobryn - a small town just to the east of Brest Litovsk. At that time the locals had no sense of nationality, they were the "local people". However, they certainly were not Polish. Today it is solidily Belarus area, with even Ucranian dialect speakers considering themselves to be Belarus. So I say the regiment is Belarus with a sprinkling of Ucranians Molodeczno - this is IIRC near the edge of Polish and Belarus speaking areas, so I imagine the regiment to be mixed, maybe 50-50, or with slight majority of Belarus. Lida - this is a big Polish "island" between Belarus and Lithuanian areas. I suspect this to be a mostly Polish regiment, with a Belarus minority, and possibly Lithuanian too (but much smaller than the Belarus component) - this depends how much to the east or west of the town did the regiment recruit. CORRECTION: Going by memory, I misplaced Lida (somehow I always put it to the north, not south of Wilno). Lithuanians are rather unlikely in it, a Polish-Belarus unit. Nowe-Troki (Trakai - if you are using a Lithuanian map) - I know the least about it. I guess it is to the west of Wilno, so it should be Lithuanian. Some sort of Polish minority cannot be ruled out. CORRECTION: I checked the map, and it is to the west of Wilno. But very close (Wilno was on a big Polish "island", which also included Lida to the south), so it could be mostly Polish, but there should be some sort of Lithuanian element in it. ADDED LATER: And now for some fellow Central European to pounce on me For those who would like to see where these towns - not exactly household names - are, check the excellent map at the warchron site: http://www.warchron.com/imagePages/maps/german/2a/2b.htm Troki http://www.warchron.com/imagePages/maps/german/3a/3b.htm Kobryn, Lida And I forgot about the Grodno gubernia - sorry. Borys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duckman Posted 3 August , 2006 Share Posted 3 August , 2006 Ahoj! As to the ethnic composition of those regiments - I simply know where these towns are, and I know the crazy quilt pattern of nationalities which lived there before WWII. That makes sense. I thought you must have access to some detailed records (muster rolls or somesuch) of the units in question. I imagine such records (if they existed) have long since been destroyed, which is why I was so surprised. I spent some time going through Russian regimental bases last year - establishing the current placenames was a challenge to say the least. The data is sitting on a very dead hard drive, but if I can retrieve it, I'd like to finish the 20% or so that I could not track down due to name changes and linguistic shifts. If your interested, keep your eye out for some queries on this sort of thing over at Warchron (I see you're a member there now). cheers Duckman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borys Posted 3 August , 2006 Author Share Posted 3 August , 2006 Ahoj! Send my a list of those towns. I'll try to help. I'm quite familiar with the area between the Vistula (Wisła, Weischel) and the Dnepr (Dniepr, Dnepro). Do you know this site: http://home.comcast.net/~markconrad/ Specifically: http://home.comcast.net/~markconrad/RUSS1914.html It was funny reading the addresses of the Guard Regiments, as I know these streets from my visits to Sankt Peterburg. ADDED LATER: http://www.answers.com/topic/names-of-euro...erent-languages Helpful? Borys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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