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The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Remembered Today:

Photos of WW1 aircraft from old negatives and a question


mark parker

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I think that the reference to 101 Sqn going out to France with BE12 & BE12a is misleading. It went out to the BEF purely as a light night-bombing squadron with FE2bs. My understanding is that the 9th Wing SD Flight, which operated the BE12/12as on agent/pigeon dropping missions, was attached to 101 Sqn in September 1917and remained with that unit until mid February, when it became parented by 102 Sqn. The SD Flight eventually was redesignated I Flight in July 1918.

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Thanks for all the information guys. Its filling in some blanks, here is a photo of an FE2 unfortunately out of clear focus the number is not so clear but could be A5654 or 1. Also a nice photo of the South African 'Pud' Reed, to compare to the photo of Arthur Reed above, what do you think possibly the same man?

FE2.jpg

'Pud Reed South Africa';

PudReedSouthAfrica.jpg

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The 2 FEs that you suggest :-

A5651 SARD Farnborough tested 3.7.1917 and 4.7.1917. 100 Sqn Ochey and damaged in enemy bombing of aerodrome 4.12.1917. 2 AD Candas ex 100 Sqn 4.12.1917.

A5654 33 HDS and wrecked in crash 26.7.1917 (Lt TH Coupe KIFA).

Given the other photos that you've posted, I'd suggest the latter as the likely subject.

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When you "invert" the "colours" in the photo of the FE2, I think it looks like A5654, rather than 5651. I've only just started playing around with this technique but I have found that "inverting" the colours sometimes brings up details that cant be seen on the normal photo.

Great collection of photos by the way.

Dave

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I found a couple more; This print has written on the back:

This is a crash by a mad young Canadian, he tried to land but was too near the sheds so zoomed over them hit an artesian well plant & came down into this hut, wings and tail he left outside but took the rest in with him, quite an exciting trip.

madcanadian.jpg

"This is how he woke the men up at 5.30am, not much left of the machine, but the pilot was uninjured, one man in the hut had 3 ribs broken, thats all!

The sargeant in the picture is a chap from Stanmore named Russell, he and I had good times together at Beaulieu. Pilots seat right on right of picture.

MadCanadian2.jpg

They do look a bit put out.

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An interesting pair of photos. It's a BE2b - note the rib-taping on the elevators and the lack of an aileron on the lower wings that's visible. The only ones I've got at Beaulieu are 2778, 2789 and 2885 - all May 1917. The pilot must have walked away - I've no casualty card details.

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Walter has 'Yours truely' written on this photo, And shows what the side of a hut should look like. Does anyone know what the things are with handles on his right, are they mops or something?

yourstruely.jpg

And this is him in the AIF; On the gun;

WalterontheGun.jpg

something flying BE2 maybe?

000009.jpg

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The flying shot of a BE2c was taken at a Home Defence station – the coupled flight shed in the background was only erected at such sites, but not all (others had more permanent hangars, eg Catterick, and some only had canvas Bessoneau hangars). A process of elimination helps to narrow down the possible location of the photo. The BE doesn’t show and evidence of flare brackets and navigation lights.

Stations with these HD hangars were :-

Ashington, Bekesbourne, Brattleby (Scampton), Buckminster, Copmanthorpe, Detling, Elmswell, Elsham, Goldhanger, Gosport, Hainault Farm, Hadleigh, Helperby, Hylton, Kirton Lindsey, Leadenham, Marham, Mattishall, North Weald Bassett, Penshurst, Penston, Rochford, Seaton Carew II, Stamford, Stow Maries, Sutton’s Farm, Telscombe Cliffs, Throwley, Turnhouse, Tydd St Mary, Whiteburn.

Also possibly Old Weston, Yelling and Therfield, but site plans for those are not available in the NA, as far as I’m aware.

Take away those that had two of these coupled units :-

Ashington, Bekesbourne, Brattleby (Scampton), Buckminster, Copmanthorpe, Elsham, Gosport, Hadleigh, Helperby, Hylton, Kirton Lindsey, Leadenham, Marham, Mattishall, Penshurst, Penston, Seaton Carew II, Stamford, Telscombe Cliffs, Turnhouse, Tydd St Mary, Whiteburn.

Take away that which had only half of such a coupled unit :-

Ashington, Bekesbourne, Brattleby (Scampton), Buckminster, Copmanthorpe, Elsham, Gosport, Hadleigh, Helperby, Hylton, Kirton Lindsey, Leadenham, Marham, Mattishall, Penshurst, Penston, Seaton Carew II, Stamford, Telscombe Cliffs, Turnhouse, Tydd St Mary.

Take away those where other, more permanent hangars would also have been visible

Ashington, Bekesbourne, Buckminster, Copmanthorpe, Elsham, Hadleigh, Helperby, Hylton, Kirton Lindsey, Leadenham, Marham, Mattishall, Penshurst, Penston, Seaton Carew II, Stamford, Telscombe Cliffs, Tydd St Mary.

Take away those where site-plans show a differing alignment of ancilliary buildings to the hangars or photos show hangars without the gentries to support the open canvas doors :-

Elsham, Kirton Lindsey, Penston, Telscombe Cliffs.

Kirton Lindsey would (possibly) tie in with the FE2b shot you’ve posted and Telscombe Cliffs could tie in with the BE2e/BE12 shots.

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B 1926 Is a Curtiss JN 4 from a batch of 50 B1901 - B1950 placed via an Admiralty contract in America. So it should be an American produced JN 4 (Jenny).

Varese

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Very interesting pictures, thanks for showing them in this Forum. When viewing in more detail I noticed that the precious four-bladed airscrews of the BE 2e were sort of packaged. Have never seen this, was it a standard protection for the airscrew when working on the machine ?

a372f229.jpg

Varese

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I suspect that the covers for propellers were standard equipment, possibly issued with machines. Similarly the cockpit and engine covers that can be seen on several shots of BE2as and early BE2cs. After all, if machines were to spend any time in the open, such protection was necessary. Attached is a shot of one of 2 Squadron's BE2as on the beach at Seaton Carew in May 1914, en-route for the Concentration Camp at Netheravon. Its propeller cover even has the machine's serial number painted on and the photo shows the rest of the fabric protection.

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Thanks for sharing these photos;

Regards,

Cnock

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Thank you so much for posting such great photos of the Fe2b's.

I was doing a search of images and found this Forum, and registered today! Your photos and the historical information is fantastic. Thanks again.

Observing,

Fee 2b

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Fee 2b,

I recently read 'horses don't fly' the story of an American serving with the RFC, a very good book, you may have read it. When Ltn Libby was an observer/gunner in the FE2bs he tralked about the more powerful Rolls Royce powered FE that he expected to counter German machine advances that by then had them hard pressed. This is the most detailed picture of the FE2d I presently have until I relocate the negative.

FE2d.jpg

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mnp,

Yes, wasn't it a great book?! "Horses don't fly" by Fred Libby is one of my favorites! Especially since I too am from the state of Colorado and grew up with horses. Interesting thought is that MVR was in the calvary before getting in the air. I feel that if you are a good horseman that you may have (or develop) a good feel in the seat of your pants for controlling an airplane.

Libby's noteworthiness as the first American Ace and earning that distinction in the Fe2b is my inspiration. I would like to build a flying replica if I could ever get my wife to permit it.

Again, my appreciation for your time and efforts to share your photos. They are remarkable.

gratefully,

Fee2b

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  • 4 years later...

Just joined the forum after finding the excellent photographs posted in 2006 of the FE2b etc. – could the second of the photos possibly show Lieut James Arthur Menzies, 33 Squadron (killed in flying accident on 25.9.17)? Photo of him attached from “Ancestry”. If so, it could fit in with other replies about the photos which mention Kirton Lindsey and A5654 (Lt T.H. Coupe’s crash). Does the photo of the FE2d appears have A12 on the tail?

Regards

Peter

post-69838-0-13368100-1303557315.jpg

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mnp,

I feel that if you are a good horseman that you may have (or develop) a good feel in the seat of your pants for controlling an airplane.

That was originally one of the questions asked of aspiring RFC and RNAS officers "Can you ride? Do you hunt". Unfortunately in certain types of flying seat of the pants was misleading. Night flying pilots could become disorientated without realising it and discover this often too late to avoid an accident. "Why are there sheep standing on the underneath of the cloud?" The same could apply in daylight when flying through cloud. The faster aircraft got the more the pilot became reliant on instruments (especially in WW2 when jets arrived and the Luftwaffe suffered horrific casualties amongst Me 262 pilots who were not instrument trained. The Soviets experienced similar problems post WW2 when they introduced jets.)

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Great photos, many thanks for sharing them. Isn't it amazing just what is still turning up, considering the sheer amount of serious research which has been going on now for the last fifty years or so. Some fantastic stuff from 40 Sqdn recently showed up. Let's all just be thankful that it does and that generous people are willing to share it. :D

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  • 2 weeks later...

I suspect that the covers for propellers were standard equipment, possibly issued with machines. Similarly the cockpit and engine covers that can be seen on several shots of BE2as and early BE2cs. After all, if machines were to spend any time in the open, such protection was necessary. Attached is a shot of one of 2 Squadron's BE2as on the beach at Seaton Carew in May 1914, en-route for the Concentration Camp at Netheravon. Its propeller cover even has the machine's serial number painted on and the photo shows the rest of the fabric protection.

Some airscrews were particularly prone to warping and/or separation as damp affected the different laminations that made them up (much the same as happens to ordinary plywood if you leave it out). I think the cause was tracked down to the formulation of the adhesive used by some manufacturers and fixed (modern marine ply owes much to this) but until it was it would be a wise precaution to cover up the expensive (and difficult to mass produce) props

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Just in case you do not have the details of his DFC?

Walter George Preston. Lt/T.Capt.

London Gazette 21/09/1918

This officer has taken part in seventy bombing raids, and has rendered most valuable service on reconnaissance duty by night. One night he carried out three successful bombing raids on hostile rest billets, dropping his bombs and engaging the enemy troops with great effect. He sets an excellent example of skill and gallantry.

From Air Force lists.

1921 210 squadron Gosport.(May)

1929 Reserve of Air Force Officers from 24/10/26.

1931 Not listed (October)

1933 Not listed (January)

1933 Reserve of Air Force Officers (January)

1936 R.A.F.O. F/L

1938 R.A.F.O. F/L

1940 s/n 00855 FL (October) returned to active list Technical Branch Signals Officer.

John_g

www.66squadron.co.uk

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Mark

No 101 Sqn RFC was formed at Farnborough on 12 July 1917 and went to France as a night-bombing unit equipped with the FE 2b, BE 12 and BE 12a later that month. The BEs were retired in March 1918. No 101 Sqn was in the 22nd (Army) Wing of the 5th Brigade and it stayed on the Western Front until after the Armistice, still using the FE 2b, and moved back to the UK in March 1919. The squadron was disbanded at Eastleigh in December 1919.

I hope that this helps.

Gareth

There is an Ian Allen Pub book: "Bomber Squadron at War" (don't recall author) which is a history of 101 squadron. I have a copy and will get it out when I get home and have a look through. It covers WWI and WWII but has quite a few identified group pictures in it.

Chris

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