medals1976 Posted 9 July , 2006 Share Posted 9 July , 2006 Hello members, Can anyone help me with the above I am researching. I have a 1914/15 Star named to F.1477 1.A.M J.E Wain Royal Naval Air Service., strangely his other medals state Lieutenant R.N.V.R. What role would this chap have had? Is it usual for someone to transfer to the R.N.V.R from the R.N.A.S? If anyone has any information about this chap and any possibilities of his role etc, it would be much appreciated. Thanks. Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per ardua per mare per terram Posted 10 July , 2006 Share Posted 10 July , 2006 His RNAS service register is online and can be downloaded for £3.50. His RNVR officer's record, on microfilm, is at Kew in ADM 337. There is a card index in the microfilm reading room. Name Wain, James Ernest Official Number: F1477 Place of Birth: Belgrave, Leicestershire Date of birth 05 April 1878 register opened and filled 1914. A Lieut. RNVR is the equivalent rank to an army captain. He could have served on land, sea or in the air and worked in a variety of roles. There was great mobility in WW1 and it was easier to transfer between units, maybe he didn't want to go into the RAF; I think that men were allocated to the RNVR for hostilies only ranks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medals1976 Posted 10 July , 2006 Author Share Posted 10 July , 2006 Thank-you very much for your help. I did not know MIC's can be obtained for the RNAS as I have never tried this and not seen the option on the NA website. I will certainly try and do this asap. Kind Regards. Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medals1976 Posted 10 July , 2006 Author Share Posted 10 July , 2006 Just obtained 1.A.M J.E Wains seaman register. It does not say much about R.N.A.S. It states he served on Pambroke III and president II in 1915, it also states he was paid a war gratuity! What would a war gratuity be paid for and what are these ships he served? If anyone can help it would be much appreciated. I have got the ball rolling thanks to a helpful forum member. Regards. Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 10 July , 2006 Share Posted 10 July , 2006 If he was RNVR in WW1 he probably appears in the officers ledgers at the Fleet Air Arm Museum. They may also have some material on his rating servcie in the RNAS. 01935 842628. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medals1976 Posted 10 July , 2006 Author Share Posted 10 July , 2006 Thank-you Horatio, I will give them a try. Regards. Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per ardua per mare per terram Posted 10 July , 2006 Share Posted 10 July , 2006 (edited) That is the register of ratings service for RN Ratings and the RNAS were included in the system. Pembroke III = R.N.A.S. Eastchurch President II was the RNAS acounting base, could mean service anywhere - possibly France or Dunkirk. The RNAS seems to have kept seperate card index with details of service, which has been weeded. There are several threads that mention war gratuities. Edited 9 June , 2010 by per ardua per mare per terram Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medals1976 Posted 11 July , 2006 Author Share Posted 11 July , 2006 Thank-you very much for your help. Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Fearon Posted 9 June , 2010 Share Posted 9 June , 2010 Hi - I have been trying to reply to your posts but have made a bit of a mess of it! However here is another attempt. I think that the J E Wain you mention was my grandfather. He was born in 1878 and married my grandmother, Violet Evelyn Mason in 1916. They had one daughter, my mother Jean Ella Wain in 1917. She was born in Pembroke Dock where he was posted in the RNAS. After the war he allegedly had a drink problem and was sent by his family to New Zealand in about 1925. My grandmother and mother were going to follow him but never did and she divorced him in 1926. I never met him but he sent my family food parcels in the late 40s, he died, I think, in 1956. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headgardener Posted 9 June , 2010 Share Posted 9 June , 2010 There was great mobility in WW1 and it was easier to transfer between units, maybe he didn't want to go into the RAF; I think that men were allocated to the RNVR for hostilies only ranks. Can I add that the fact he has RNVR on his BW&VM pair doesn't mean that he transferred out of the RNAS when he was commissioned. A lot of RNAS officers were RNVR, and this is what would be recorded on their medals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per ardua per mare per terram Posted 9 June , 2010 Share Posted 9 June , 2010 Since this thread opened the RNVR records have come online: Name Wain, James Ernest http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documen...p;resultcount=1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per ardua per mare per terram Posted 9 June , 2010 Share Posted 9 June , 2010 Can I add that the fact he has RNVR on his BW&VM pair doesn't mean that he transferred out of the RNAS when he was commissioned. A lot of RNAS officers were RNVR, and this is what would be recorded on their medals. However, if these officers transferred into the Royal Air Force on its creation their BW & VM pair should have 'RAF' not 'RNVR' on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headgardener Posted 9 June , 2010 Share Posted 9 June , 2010 However, if these officers transferred into the Royal Air Force on its creation their BW & VM pair should have 'RAF' not 'RNVR' on them. But only if they had overseas service after 1 April '18. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per ardua per mare per terram Posted 9 June , 2010 Share Posted 9 June , 2010 (edited) But only if they had overseas service after 1 April '18. No, only if they had served in a theatre of war after 1st April 1918 and the air qualified as a theatre of war. But I did say should and that ought to be emphasised. Officers who did switch to the RAF and served in theatres of war after 1st April 1918 were issued with medals for units other than the RAF. Sometimes these were duplicate issues by the War Office or the Admiralty when all the paperwork hadn't been followed through. I have seen war office medal index cards that do not mention an officer as being in the RAF and show references to WO medal rolls. Edited 9 June , 2010 by per ardua per mare per terram Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per ardua per mare per terram Posted 9 June , 2010 Share Posted 9 June , 2010 I should have checked for an RAF record now they're online: Name Wain, James Ernest Date of birth: 03 April 1878 http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documen...p;resultcount=7 Unfortunately, complete medal records for the RAF for this period are not open to the public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headgardener Posted 9 June , 2010 Share Posted 9 June , 2010 No only if they had served in a theatre of war after 1 April '18 and the air qualified as a theatre of war. But aircrew in home service squadrons didn't automatically qualify for campaign medals...? RFC observer, wounded in March '18, transferred to the UK, subsequent transfer to Home Service squadron, victory named to 'RFC'. Pte in 14th London's, commissioned into RFC as a pilot, posted to HS sqn; BW&VM named to Pte, 14th London, etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per ardua per mare per terram Posted 9 June , 2010 Share Posted 9 June , 2010 Please see my edited and revised post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per ardua per mare per terram Posted 9 June , 2010 Share Posted 9 June , 2010 (edited) But aircrew in home service squadrons didn't automatically qualify for campaign medals...? RFC observer, wounded in March '18, transferred to the UK, subsequent transfer to Home Service squadron, victory named to 'RFC'. Pte in 14th London's, commissioned into RFC as a pilot, posted to HS sqn; BW&VM named to Pte, 14th London, etc... I'm not sure that I follow you here. If his victory named to 'RFC' I am surprised that it is also named to Pte, 14th London. I also don't follow his promotion track, had he been commissioned by March 1918, if not it was a very rapid promotion to be done in time for him also to be commissioned into the RFC. By that time I thought men were spending several months as a cadet before becoming commissioned officers. Edited 9 June , 2010 by per ardua per mare per terram Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headgardener Posted 9 June , 2010 Share Posted 9 June , 2010 Having re-read my original post I recognise that I made a mistake; I appear to suggest that RNVR would 'trump' RNAS in medal naming, but I didn't mention anything about service in a theatre of war. I am genuinely surprised at what you say because I've come across a lot of instances like the ones I've cited, but only ever came across one double issue which I remember the auction catalogue describing as unusual. Anyway, I don't want to hijack this thread, so I'll shut up! I'm not sure that I follow you here. If his victory named to 'RFC' I am surprised that it is also named to Pte, 14th London. I also don't follow his promotion track, had he been commissioned by March 1918, if not it was a very rapid promotion to be done in time for him also to be commissioned into the RFC. By that time I thought men were spending several months as a cadet before becoming commissioned officers. Sorry mate, I was describing 2 different recipients. My fault, very confusing post, sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per ardua per mare per terram Posted 9 June , 2010 Share Posted 9 June , 2010 I have seen War Office medal index cards to RAF officers that do not mention that they were in the RAF and who have the WO medal roll references and have read their WO files and seen the AIR 79 records with notifications of eligability for medals from the Air Ministry. I have seen others noting duplicate submissions by WO and Air Ministry, sometimes it is not clear that these were resolved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Morcombe Posted 12 June , 2010 Share Posted 12 June , 2010 ADM/171/91 medal roll shows:- Lieutenant R.N.V.R. James E. WAIN 1914-15 Star, Victory & British War Medals Self. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Fearon Posted 20 July , 2010 Share Posted 20 July , 2010 Hello members, Can anyone help me with the above I am researching. I have a 1914/15 Star named to F.1477 1.A.M J.E Wain Royal Naval Air Service., strangely his other medals state Lieutenant R.N.V.R. What role would this chap have had? Is it usual for someone to transfer to the R.N.V.R from the R.N.A.S? If anyone has any information about this chap and any possibilities of his role etc, it would be much appreciated. Thanks. Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per ardua per mare per terram Posted 21 July , 2010 Share Posted 21 July , 2010 CJWF would you like to try again, I'm not sure what your new comment is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Fearon Posted 27 August , 2010 Share Posted 27 August , 2010 CJWF would you like to try again, I'm not sure what your new comment is. Sorry - no new comment I got a bit confused with the site! J E Wain was my grandfather and I should like to see his medals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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