LT COL GRAHAM SETON HUTCHINSON

[Greg Bloomfield]

I'm currently reading Persico's 11th Month, 11th Day 11th Hour. He claims that during the Michael Offensive, when British troops were surrendering in large numbers, this officer saw a group of forty preparing to surrender so he shot 38 of them to 'Stop the rot of surrender".

Unfortunately no details of date, location or units come with this account or indeed how he was able to kill 38 of his own blokes (presumably he must have ordered others to do it as he would have had a hard time accomplishing it with a pistol and swagger stick).

Has anybody heard of this incident, and if true did he get away with it without any sort of action taken against him?

Greg

[Rob B]

Greg,

I think this is a bit of an exaduration but I am happy to be proved wrong. As to what would happen had he done a thing like that, I think not a lot as that was part of the officers and SNCOs job, to stop the rot and shoot any one going in the wrong direction without a very good reason. It was Nasty but necessary as an ultimate deterent and if the troops knew that then it would not happen ias it would focus their mind a bit.

Cheers,

Rob

[Greg Bloomfield]

Exactly my point Rob, to shoot any ONE going in the wrong direction. I know officers and seniors had to use lethal force (or the threat of it) on occasion and I have read accounts of it happening. But here, a more sensible (if thats the word) way would have been to shoot two to encourage the remaining thirty eight to continue the fight.

Persico has given a rank and a name to this bloke so unless he's made it up he's either elaborating somewhat or this did happen in which case I'm sure somebody on the Forum will have knowledge of it.

Greg

[ajsmith]

It would be interesting to know the source of this story.

A quick google on Seton-Hutchinson reveals some very interesting stuff, he was known as the Mad Major, won an MC and DSO, was a strong supporter of the Nordic League in the 1930's which was often described as the British branch of International Nazism, and wrote a book about Machine Guns.

This doesn't support or deny the story of him ordering the shooting of 38 men but he wasn't called mad for nothing was he?

Certainly worth investigating further.

[marina]

'Colonel Bogey's March' was written about him according to this website:

http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:4XMiqIF...=clnk&cd=22

Scroll down the page.

Marina

[Steven Broomfield]

He wrote the histories of the 33rd Division and the 33rd Batt, MGC (which he commanded). I find neither of them perticularly good references (in fact, the former book was all over the place with dates when I looked some stuff up last year, comparing it to other works covering the same actions). he also wrote at least 2 books of memoirs: "Warrior" (I think), which I bought 20 years ago, read at the time, and now can't find (it's in a pile somewhere), and another, the title of which I forget.

He was Argylls (2nd Battalion) originally, transferred to the MGC. His general attitude makes me think he could well have done what he is 'accused' of doing; or he could have made the whole thing up!

[DaveBrigg]

There was a reference in a thread a few months back to a British officer turning a machine gun on men who were retreating in March 1918, and wiping them out. IIRC the men were drunk, and the officer's account was published as one of a series of first-hand accounts in the 1920's. The post may have been in response to a question that Egbert asked regarding his grandfather, although I cannot find it at this moment.

[Potter]

Seton Hutchinson was a regular who became commander of 33rd Division Machine Gun Corps. He won the DSO and MC and was mentioned in dispatches 4 times. He wrote a somewhat strange book, "Warrior", published in 1932, which is a mixture of personal experience, reflections on the War and an analysis of the nature of warrior, the fighting man. It's an annoying book because it keeps going off at tangents, whereas a straightforward account of his experiences would be much more interesting. he'svery much the fire eater.

Anyway, I've had a look at his account of Michael but can't find anything on shooting surrendering troops. He does descibe the collapse of the front and the panic and disorder which set in. At one point, he halted at gunpoint a retreating battalion being led by its CO. He ordered the men to turn round and occupy the Hoegenacker Ridge: "Finally I gave the officer, whose men said they would accept no order except through one of their own officers, two minutes in which to decide, with the alternative of being shot out of hand. At the end of those two minutes I struck him: and the Regimental Sergeant-Major exclaimed, "That's what I've been waiting to do all day, sir." He led the companies up to the Ridge, though they proved but a feeble defence and dwindled away during the night."

The only possible references which might fit the bill are "We discovered in the Belle Croix estaminet beside the mill a crowd of stragglers, fighting drunk. We routed them out, and, with a machine gun trained on them, sent them forward towards the enemy. They perished to a man."

And: "So critical was the situation that I issued orders to my sergeants in charge of the gun teams that at any time they saw British troops retiring they were to fire on them; and from near the mill I saw one of my gunners destroy a platoon of one regiment which in panic was in flight."

Phil

[Staffsyeoman]

He wrote the histories of the 33rd Division and the 33rd Batt, MGC (which he commanded). I find neither of them perticularly good references (in fact, the former book was all over the place with dates when I looked some stuff up last year, comparing it to other works covering the same actions). he also wrote at least 2 books of memoirs: "Warrior" (I think), which I bought 20 years ago, read at the time, and now can't find (it's in a pile somewhere), and another, the title of which I forget.

He was Argylls (2nd Battalion) originally, transferred to the MGC. His general attitude makes me think he could well have done what he is 'accused' of doing; or he could have made the whole thing up!

Hmm... a curious cove was Colonel S-H. (By the way, to the Army he was plain Colonel Hutchison (NB, No 'N'), not double-barrelled. I must be temperate as his son (now in his 80s) has been very helpful to us in the MGC history project. One issue we have agreed on is that we do NOT rely on S-H's work as source material. It's very slanted. He claimed that 33rd Battalion was the most highly decorated MGC unit of the war (it wasn't) and almost goes as far as to claim that 33 Bn stopped the German offensive in 1918. Single handed. And therefore won the war. His pride in and loyalty to his command are commendable, but slant his work as a reference.

He made a living after the war writing (fairly pulp) spy thrillers as 'Graham Seton'. His politics in the 30s were decidedly unpalatable (he thought Mosley was soft). This may have influenced the government when he wrote to Eden in 1940 offering to reconstitute the MGC as part of the defence of the homeland (he, of course, would have commanded it..). He was politely told to encourage the members of the MGC OCA to join the Home Guard.

Meanwhile, back at the point, I tend not to take S-H's claims at face value without corroboration. I was hugely disappointed by Persico's book when I read it, and that story shouldn't, I think, be taken at face value.

Oh, and he wasn't Colonel Bogey; he was 'The Mad Major' in the march written by Alford, who wrote Colonel Bogey.

[Greg Bloomfield]

Thanks for the replies. He sounds like he was a loose canon in every sense of the word.

From what I've learnt of him here it wouldn't surprise me if it did happen but equally, I wouldn't be at all surprised to find it all a load of Ipswich Town.

Greg

[ian turner]

I posted the article from 'I Was There' - it was in Egbert's thread, concerning Egbert's grandfather having to turn his pistol on his own men. I do not have the post link to hand, but it should be there.

Ian

[ian turner]

Found it. Copying from my previous posting for ease of reading:

Posting here an interesting article (or at least extracts from same) which very much involves the matters discussed here:

From the volumes of ''I Was There" - eyewitness accounts from the Gerat War.

This particular subject was written by a Lt Col Graham Seton Hutchison DSO, MC who was in the Machine-Gun Corps. It tells of his experiences at Meteren during the 1918 Spring Offensive, with the British Army in full retreat. I just give snippets of the points which are of interest to this theme:

Arriving at Meteren he soon encountered large numbers in full retreat, with full ammo pouches and not having fired a shot. He requested the use of a lorry but the ASC officer in command of same refused. Hutchison then hit him on the head with the butt of his revolver and took over the vehicle. (The driver of which won a DCM due to his services over the next few days).

Next he halted a battalion of North Country troops at revolver-point and ordered the young major in command to turn them about. Three times he gave the order and also in writing, each time being refused. He gave the officer two minutes to decide, or be shot out of hand. On the expiry he struck the officer and the RSM led the troops back.

''We discovered in an Estaminet a crowd of stragglers, fighting drunk. We routed them out, and with a machine-gun trained on them sent them forward towards the enemy. They perished to a man.''

''So critical was the situation that I issued orders to my sergeants in charge of gun teams that at any time they saw British troops retiring they were to fire on them...... I saw one of my gunners destroy a platoon of one regiment in full flight.''

These incidents occured during a seven day action, which saw the fall of Bailleul and Meteren, and Hutchison finishes his article by stating that

''three Military Crosses, fourteen DCMs, twenty-five MMs were awarded to those under my command.'' Hutchison was apparently nominated for a VC but did not have sufficient officer witnesses to gain the award.

The article carries a picture of him unveiling a Machine-gun Corps plaque in Albert, plus a wartime picture of him with a group at MGC HQ.

[toofatfortakeoff]

Founder af a short lived National Workers Party in the 1930s where some pretty vicious views came to the fore. Other Fascists didnt bother with him.

[Steven Broomfield]

He sounds like he was a loose canon in every sense of the word.

Loose machine gun, surely?

[Rob B]

Had this been Vietnam he would have been at the front of the Q for a grenade in his mess tent!

Cheers,

Rob

[squirrel]

Off the point entirely, but Kenneth Alford, who wrote Colonel Bogey and The Mad Major amongst other marches, including Great Little Army dedicated to Field Marshall French, spent most of his musical career with the Royal Marines. They still play his arrangement of their regimental march, A Life on The Ocean Waves.

[Greg Bloomfield]

And never was a better Regimental March ever penned, wonderful piece of music for a fine, upstanding bunch of men, surely Britain's finest.

Greg

[Audax]

Here's one his little known and best forgotten works

Author - (corporate) National Workers' Party of Great Britain

Title Truth. The evidence in the case. By Lt.-Col. Graham Seton Hutchison. [On the political influence of the Jews. With illustrations.

year pp. 24. London, [1936.]

[AGWR]

Hutchinson's own words about the incident alleged to have taken place in March 1918:

' Such an action as this will in a short time spread like dry rot through an army and is one of those dire military necessities which calls for immediate and prompt action. If there does not exist on the spot a leader of sufficient courage and initiative to check it by a word, it must be necessary to check it by shooting. This was done. Of a party of forty men who held up their hands, thirty eight were shot down with the result that this never occurred again'.

This extract is reproduced in 'The Great War And Modern Memory'. Fussell gives his source as 'The Thin Yellow Line', p143. I haven't got this book. I am sure that several forum members have a copy. Does Moore give any more information ?

Regards,

AGWR

[igillian]

Hi All, as necessary as it may have been to deter surrender or retreat, the execution of a soldier without at least the chance of a trial sickens me. I have often read accounts of similar incidents during the March offensive and they rarely fail to anger me. The executioners were often men who were coming up from the relative safety of reserve positions or other regions, they were often fresh and were moving forward in a coeherent unit which still had a reasonable command structure in place. The same cannot be said of those who surrendered or retreated, they had been severely infiltrated (often cut off without any contact with other parts of their unit let alone brigade or division). They had suffered one of the worst bombardments of the war, which early up was largely gas, had virtually no chance of being resupplied with food, water, ammunition etc. Had no command structure to verify the importance of positions they held (many H.Qs were destroyed or withdrawn without the knowledge of the troops in forward zones). Artillery support was one of the first casualties of the battle and most forms of communication were damaged by shell fire. That these men retired or surrendered is not surprising, that many held out as long as they did is truly remarkable. But to be shot at or jeered after all their sufferings (even after almost 90 years) was and is deplourable.

I have no doubt that some of these stories are fiction, or that they were sometimes used after the fact to inflate the importance of their authors actions or that of their unit. However i have no information as regards the case mentioned. In an ideal world all of these stories would be fiction but the western front was hardly an ideal world. Cheers Ian.

[Steven Broomfield]

Golly. Just reading Charles Messenger's magnum opus, "The Call to Arms", and a very interesting entry on S-H on pages 397/398, involving a 'dalliance' which led to him nearly losing his commission.