Kia Ora tank

[ewn]

I'm simply looking for anything about the tank Kia Ora and its crew when in Gaza 1917. I have the citation for Winder, etc. and the journal. Perhaps there's someone here who had a relative on this tank?

Many thanks.

[Simon Furnell]

Evening E Winder,and welcome to the forum.

It is a very unusual name,Kia Ora,but one i am very familiar with.

Unfortunately,i must admit,i can be of no help with your search for a Tank of that name,but no doubt some one on here maybe able to help you.

I have often wondered what Kia Ora was,apart from being "To Orangey for Crows,just for me and my dog",the reason being,that when my Dad was a kid during WW2,he lived in a bungalow called Kia Ora.

Thirty odd years later it was my first home as well,a kind of pre-fab building with real,imitation,beams on the outside walls.

We also had a couple of caravans called Kia Ora,but they would have been hard pushed to stop a Bumble Bee at full tilt,let alone a machine gun bullet,or shrapnel.

I would be interested to know where the name Kia Ora came from.

More than likely,in the Tanks case,the name came from one of the Tank crew,or the commander of it.

Was Kia Ora a British base at some point?.

Maybe Bovington Tank museum could be worth a try in your search.

Without a doubt,i know from experience,some of our Forum Tank Pals will be able to point you in the right direction.

All the best,and good hunting.

Simon.

[ewn]

Thank you for your reply, Simon Furnell. I remember when I was living in England seeing bungalows called Kia Ora. At first I thought it might have come from an Edwardian music hall song since I know my father loved the music hall. Then I learned that there were many New Zealanders in Gaza when he was there. "Kia Ora" is maori for 'hello - goodbye', I understand. He was its tank commander, I understand from Bovington and he was awarded an M.C. Bovington had the citation which had been destroyed during the Blitz where it had been filed. His letters from the Front and medals were destroyed in my grandmother's house in London during the Blitz. A great loss for me and his grandchildren I was born late in his life after his first wife and child had died in the great influenza epidemic after WWI and he married my mother in Australia.

He never told 'war stories'. Many jokes though. I understood that he had lost most of the friends of his own age in the war.

My great hope on this website is to find someone whose grandfather may have known my father, or even better been one the Kia Ora tank crew.

Thank you again. His daughter,

E. Winder

Evening E Winder,and welcome to the forum.

It is a very unusual name,Kia Ora,but one i am very familiar with.

Unfortunately,i must admit,i can be of no help with your search for a Tank of that name,but no doubt some one on here maybe able to help you.

I have often wondered what Kia Ora was,apart from being "To Orangey for Crows,just for me and my dog",the reason being,that when my Dad was a kid during WW2,he lived in a bungalow called Kia Ora.

Thirty odd years later it was my first home as well,a kind of pre-fab building with real,imitation,beams on the outside walls.

We also had a couple of caravans called Kia Ora,but they would have been hard pushed to stop a Bumble Bee at full tilt,let alone a machine gun bullet,or shrapnel.

I would be interested to know where the name Kia Ora came from.

More than likely,in the Tanks case,the name came from one of the Tank crew,or the commander of it.

Was Kia Ora a British base at some point?.

Maybe Bovington Tank museum could be worth a try in your search.

Without a doubt,i know from experience,some of our Forum Tank Pals will be able to point you in the right direction.

All the best,and good hunting.

Simon.

[Simon Furnell]

Hello E.

Thanks for passing that on.

My sister-in law comes from New Zealand.

Isn't it a small world.

Did Bovington have the citation?.

If not,and it is a long shot,maybe a look at the London Gazzette website could be of help.

A very annoying site to work out,but you can get there in the end.

Do you know which Tank Battalion he was serving in?.

If not,it maybe worth putting a posting in Units and Formations.

All the best,and thanks again.

Simon.

[soilsister]

Mark 1 male tank, females had machine guns instead of 6 pounders.

It was the normal practice to name tanks. Other named tanks known to have been in this theatre are: Pincher, Sir Archibald, Nutty, Otazel, War Baby, Kia-Ora (female) and Tiger, Ole-Luk-Oie. These tanks were manned by personnel from E battalion under the command of Maj Norman Nutt, deployed in the Canal Zone from January 1917.

[Aaron Nelson]

Hey all,

I understand Kia Ora is a greeting in Maori, it means "Hello - I see you" I acknowledge you.

Its a greeting that says hello and also shows your respect for the individual you are gretting at the same time. It is more than simply hello, it is common in conversation to say kia ora when you are acknowledging what someone has just said or done.

cheers Aaron.

[soilsister]

have a look on this link you might find something in there

http://bedfordregiment.org.uk/id7.html

[Guest geoff501]

I have often wondered what Kia Ora was,apart from being "To Orangey for Crows,just for me and my dog",

I did not realise that this trade name had been around quite a while for this stuff. From Edwin Campion Vaughan's diary, May 6 (1917):

"Vaughan , you silly senseless idiot! Why! he choked Why will you be buying a case of Kia-Ora when we're moving tomorrow. You fool! How the hell do you think you will carry it? Oh! I've no patience wi' you, you're past teaching!"

A great book.

[ewn]

Hello E.

Thanks for passing that on.

My sister-in law comes from New Zealand.

Isn't it a small world.

Did Bovington have the citation?.

If not,and it is a long shot,maybe a look at the London Gazzette website could be of help.

A very annoying site to work out,but you can get there in the end.

Do you know which Tank Battalion he was serving in?.

If not,it maybe worth putting a posting in Units and Formations.

All the best,and thanks again.

Simon.

Thanks, Simon. Bovington had the citation. I may have the Tank Battalion and thanks too for the Units and Formations advice. ewn

[delta]

There is little information about him (or his exploits) in the Corps history; for those who have not seen the citation; here it is (it doesn't even give his christian name).

WINDER This officer was in command of a tank operating against the Gaza defences. With conspicuous gallantry he attacked the Turkish positions, inflicting heavy casualties, and, rolling down the wire, let our infantry through, and afterwards patrolled the position while the infantry consolidated it.

I think his initials were RA and he was commissioned into 8th (Territorial) Battalion of the Middlesex Regt before joining the Machine Gun Corps; he must have later transferred to the Tank Corps as the London Gazette shows that he was promoted temporary Captain on 19th October 1918.

E - can you tell us more about your father's life - it is rare to be able to talk to one of the some-one who knew the first tankees

Stephen

[ewn]

Mark 1 male tank, females had machine guns instead of 6 pounders.

It was the normal practice to name tanks. Other named tanks known to have been in this theatre are: Pincher, Sir Archibald, Nutty, Otazel, War Baby, Kia-Ora (female) and Tiger, Ole-Luk-Oie. These tanks were manned by personnel from E battalion under the command of Maj Norman Nutt, deployed in the Canal Zone from January 1917.

Soilsister: Thank you for both your posts. I checked the Bedford but he wasn't there. I now know he was in the Middlesex and the Machine Gun Corps. This info. will lead me back to Europe.

I did get the diaries of the Gaza period from Bovington. I'm assuming that each commander was able to name his own tank?

[ewn]

Hey all,

I understand Kia Ora is a greeting in Maori, it means "Hello - I see you" I acknowledge you.

Its a greeting that says hello and also shows your respect for the individual you are gretting at the same time. It is more than simply hello, it is common in conversation to say kia ora when you are acknowledging what someone has just said or done.

cheers Aaron.

Thank you, Aaron: I didn't know kia ora had the added meaning of respect for the individual. That really makes sense to me now when I think about WHY that name?

Just a small piece of information like that somehow fleshes out my father's story for me.

[ewn]

E - can you tell us more about your father's life - it is rare to be able to talk to one of the some-one who knew the first tankees

Stephen

Dear Stephen: Thanks for the information re my father's other regiments. Yes, I would like to tell you more about my father, but it would probably help if you began by asking me some questions. Since I've been researching his records I find that my perceptions of him have deepened and changed. This will come out in my writing which I plan on beginning in September of this year.

We might use personal email for this conversation, at least to begin with.

[delta]

Will drop you a PM

Stephen

[WhiteStarLine]

I know this is a really old thread!  Someone has just posted some wonderfully clear photographs of H.M.L.S. Kia Ora and Otazel on flickr.  Seem to be around 120 photographs of service in Gallipoli and Palestine by Harold Edgar Lanyon.