manchester regiment Posted 25 September , 2006 Share Posted 25 September , 2006 phillip,tried to reply to your PM,but your mail box is full,if you PM me your address,i will send you a copy of the newspaper page and anything else i find,bernard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kin47 Posted 26 September , 2006 Share Posted 26 September , 2006 Hello There were a number of U.S.N. personnel lost in LEINSTER. I am interested that the report said several were from USS UTAH. My list only lists the deaths as occuring in LEINSTER. I have the list if anyone has interest. All best don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oak Posted 2 October , 2006 Share Posted 2 October , 2006 Don, For cross reference purposes, I would be very grateful for a copy of the list, please. According to my research, there were 12 or 13 U.S. Naval personnel travelling on the LEINSTER, of whom 4 were lost. (I say 12 or 13 because I think that one of the survivors names is duplicated). By the end of WW1 there were 92 U.S. Navy ships in Queenstown harbour (now Cobh), County Cork and 17 ships, including the U.S.S. UTAH, in Bantry Bay, County Cork. I like your motto that "Knowledge not shared is lost." Regards, Philip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kin47 Posted 2 October , 2006 Share Posted 2 October , 2006 Hello Philip Thank you for the comment on my motto. It has always been my belief that if everyone came together and pooled their information, no questions would remain. I only found three USN people lost in LEINSTER. JOHN BALMER BLACK, GUNNER’S MATE 2c, USN JOSEPH LEO HOGAN, QUARTERMASTER 2c, USN RODERICK PERRY TAYLOR, CHIEF MACHINIST MATE, USNRF There are two UTAH men who died from pneumonia within two weeks of the sinking. Unknown if they would have been on board. All best don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oak Posted 3 October , 2006 Share Posted 3 October , 2006 Don, According to my research the following U.S. Naval personnel were travelling on the R.M.S. Leinster the day she was sunk. + after a name indicates that the man was lost in the sinking. Anderson. Mentioned in a telegram sent by U.S. Consul Adams from Dublin, Ireland. Possibly refers to Andorsech, who was not mentioned in the telegram. Gunner E. Andorsech Seaman P. Barnier Gunners Mate Second Class John Balmer Black+ Daniel Dwyer Quartermaster Second Class Joseph Leo Hogan+ Seaman Frank A. Martin Chief Special Mechanic James B. Mason D.J. Murphy Carpenter’s Mate J. Rafferty Master Mariner G. Russell Chief Machinist’s Mate Roderick Perry Taylor+ Yeoman Third Class John James Valentine+ From this you will see that the fourth casualty was Yeoman Third Class John James Valentine. All I know about him is that he was from New Briten, Connecticut. Regards, Philip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kin47 Posted 3 October , 2006 Share Posted 3 October , 2006 Hello Philip Thanks for the information. John James Valentine, Yeoman 3c, USN, is shown in the U.S. Navy List as "Naval Forces operating in Europen Waters, October 10, 1918." Additional information in the list, if wanted, is when and where he enlisted and his next of kin's name and street address in New Britian, Conn. Checking, none of the men shown as survivours were among the UTAH pneumonia victims. Most likely, my illness deaths were part of the influenza pandemic. From the New York Times issued 11 October 1918, Captain Hutch Ingham Cone, officer in charge of the American Naval Airship Service, was also in LEINSTER. He sustained a broken leg and was hospitalised in Dublin. All best don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oak Posted 3 October , 2006 Share Posted 3 October , 2006 Thanks Don, I think I have the extra information that you mentioned tucked away in a filing cabinet. For space reasons I didn't put it in my book. (When I said that I didn't have anymore on him, I should more correctly have said that I didn't know the name of the U.S. ship on which he was serving.) Cone was a very interesting character and features in the book. Prior to the war he had spent some time in charge of the Panama Canal. At the time he boarded the Leinster he was returning from a tour of inspection of US Naval Aviation Stations in Ireland. (There were 5 stations in Ireland). Injured in the sinking, he was brought to a Red Cross Hospital in Dublin Castle. (The only American among a small group of injured officers who were brought to the hospital.) In December 1918 Cone returned to the United States for hospitalisation. After discharge he attended the Naval War College, Newport, Rhode Island and later took command of the armoured cruiser Huron, flagship of the U.S. Asiatic Fleet. Having served as Chief of Staff to the Commander in Chief of the Asiatic Fleet, he returned to the United States in February 1922. The injuries he sustained in the sinking of the Leinster had resulted in permanent physical disability. On 11 July 1922 he was retired with the rank of Rear Admiral. Following his retirement he took up various posts in shipping and aviation. On 12 February 1941 Hutch Cone died in Orlando, Florida, two and a half months before his 70th birthday. On 18 August 1945 the United States Navy commissioned the destroyer U.S.S. Cone (DD-866) in his honour. Regards, Philip ps I forgot to ask -- Do you have a particular interest in the U.S.S. Utah? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kin47 Posted 4 October , 2006 Share Posted 4 October , 2006 Hello Philip Thanks for your reply. Your answers have convinced me to add your book to my library. My interest in UTAH......no less than any other ship. I just bumped into the LEINSTER and UTAH people looking for another ship's casualties. All best don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oak Posted 10 October , 2006 Share Posted 10 October , 2006 Don, I'm honoured (the spelling is due to the fact I live on the eastern side of the Atlantic) and pleased that you are adding my book to your library. Regards, Philip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonmate Posted 29 October , 2006 Share Posted 29 October , 2006 Neil Just when you thought the thread may have dozed off..........I read a story from the Irish side. For me you have made LEINSTER a powerful word,apart from the sport of rugby connotations that is. More slightly different figures,but then that's what researching brings. The article gives total souls on board as 771 of which 492 were soldiers. 501 drowned,of which 145 officers/men of RN/MM,142 Army,and 42 crew. Take a look: http://www.hoganstand.com/general/identity/stories/rms.htm Best wishes Sotonmate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oak Posted 6 November , 2006 Share Posted 6 November , 2006 Pals, The website www.rmsleinster.com should be of interest. (I apologise that I don't have the technological knowledge to create a link.) Regards, Philip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonmate Posted 6 November , 2006 Share Posted 6 November , 2006 People, The 10 memorial stones + part of 1 supplementary stone at Hollybrook Cemetary Southampton, (Memorial of 1852 Officers and men lost/buried at sea 1914-1918), for some of the casualties from LEINSTER contain 147 names. The most distinguished name shown elsewhere here is that of Lord KITCHENER drowned whilst en route to Russia on HMS HAMPSHIRE. Best wishes Sotonmate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hywyn Posted 28 February , 2008 Share Posted 28 February , 2008 Philip (Oak) I recently visited Gorphwysfa* Cemetery in the village of Llanllyfni, Caernarfonshire. It has one WW1 CWGC grave which is that of Pte74314 R Jones, RWF. The grave also has a headstone on which it states that he was drowned in the sinking of the SS Leinster 10th Oct 1918. I have visited your informative site re this sinking. Does Pte Jones feature in your list of casualties? He was from Bryn Goleu**, Nebo, Llanllyfni I have taken a shot of the CWGC headstone plus a (not very good) one of the family headstone. * means resting place in Welsh. ** misspelt as Golen on CWGC Hywyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hywyn Posted 28 February , 2008 Share Posted 28 February , 2008 Philip (Oak) I recently visited Gorphwysfa* Cemetery in the village of Llanllyfni, Caernarfonshire. It has one WW1 CWGC grave which is that of Pte74314 R Jones, RWF. The grave also has a headstone on which it states that he was drowned in the sinking of the SS Leinster 10th Oct 1918. I have visited your informative site re this sinking. Does Pte Jones feature in your list of casualties? He was from Bryn Goleu**, Nebo, Llanllyfni I have taken a shot of the CWGC headstone plus a (not very good) one of the family headstone. * means resting place in Welsh. ** misspelt as Golen on CWGC Hywyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Wade Posted 21 March , 2008 Share Posted 21 March , 2008 Hi Everyone, I'm researching Private Craven Harling of the Royal Defence Corps who died when RMS Leinster was sunk, he's a local man from Oakworth in West Yorkshire and is named on our WW1 Oakworth War Memorial - and on our village website . For a long time I didn't have any information at all other than the CWGC details on him, but thanks to The War Graves Photographic Project I find that he was on RMS Leinster. Having done the obligatory google search I found this thread about the ship. I'm a member of Oakworth Village Society and we're always looking to increase our knowledge about the men on our war memorials. If anyone has any information about Private Craven Harling, we would be very grateful indeed for it to add it to our records. Name: HARLING, CRAVEN Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Private Regiment: Royal Defence Corps Date of Death: 10/10/1918 Service No: 49777 Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Cemetery: HOLLYBROOK MEMORIAL, SOUTHAMPTON Details: Drowned at sea (from R.M.S. "Leinster") 10/10/18 Next stop Amazon to buy that book on RMS Leinster... Kind regards, Andy Wade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonmate Posted 22 March , 2008 Share Posted 22 March , 2008 Andy If you would like a photo of the panel bearing Pte Harling's name I will do it for you. It is on the route to the homes of my children so it is no bother. Best wishes Sotonmate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Wade Posted 22 March , 2008 Share Posted 22 March , 2008 Andy If you would like a photo of the panel bearing Pte Harling's name I will do it for you. It is on the route to the homes of my children so it is no bother. Best wishes Sotonmate Hi Sotonmate, That's very kind of you to offer and yes please I certainly would! I'm sure you will be able to work out my email address, I'm the webmaster at oakworthvillage.com Many thanks in advance, Andy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oak Posted 22 April , 2008 Share Posted 22 April , 2008 Hywyn, I apologise for the long delay in replying to your query. I was ill for a while. (I'm fine now.) In October and November 1918 a number of bodies from the "Leinster" sinking were washed up on the coast of the Isle of Man. Among them were two women and a number of the ship's crew. Unfortunately it was not possible to identify the bodies. The bodies of eleven male members of the armed forces were identified, however. Among them was the body of Private Richard Jones, Royal Welch Fusiliers, found at Port St. Mary on 15 November. His body was sent home for burial. Your finding his grave brings the story full circle. Andy, Unfortunately I don't have any particular details on Private Craven Harling. He was one of 29 Royal Defence Corps men travelling on the "Leinster". 27 of them were lost in the sinking. Pals might be interested to know that this year is the 90th anniversary of the sinking. Following a lobbying campaign organised by myself An Post (the Irish Post Office) will issue a commemorative stamp on 30 May. I'm afraid I don't have the technical knowledge to create a link, but if you go to the following address and then go to Page 13 you'll get details and see a picture of the stamp. (I'd be very grateful if some technically competent Pal would create a link please). At noon on Friday 10 October an ecumemical service of commemoration will be held in St. Michael's (R.C.) Church, Marine Road, Dun Laoghaire, County Dublin. A service will be held in Holyhead on Sunday 12 October. (I don't have the time yet). Regards, Philip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clive_hughes Posted 22 April , 2008 Share Posted 22 April , 2008 Philip, I have your book, and appreciate the work you have put in to collecting and sorting the information on this tragic sinking and those who got caught up in it. My particular project concerns Anglesey WW1 casualties, of whom there were quite a few in this incident (mostly mariners from Holyhead, but a few Army as well). Could you please advise me regarding the "official" status of two of the casualties? They are Superintendent-Steward WILLIAM JOHN LEWIS and Electrical Engineer PHILIP MICHAEL, both employees of the CDSP Co. in the same way as the stewardesses, ticket clerk, cook and carpenter & crew members, and all are recorded as such on the Holyhead Town War Memorial. As far as the Commonwealth War Graves Commission is concerned, however, the others have War Graves at Holyhead or elsewhere, or a mention on the Tower Hill Memorial to the missing of the mercantile fleets etc. - but these two men are omitted. Can you think of any reason why this should be? The CWGC does not commemorate Civilian casualties, but it must have been a pretty fine distinction between the status of these two and their other colleagues. LST_164 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 22 April , 2008 Share Posted 22 April , 2008 LST these may be good cases for non commemoration - why not put something up the non commemorated section Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clive_hughes Posted 22 April , 2008 Share Posted 22 April , 2008 Chris, I'd be happy to, assuming someone doesn't find something which would definitely put them beyond the CWGC's civilian boundary. I think there must be some subtle but important difference or distinction in the matter (were they classed as "crew" or "passengers", for instance)? Hence my request to Philip as an authority. If there's no good reason why not, I will press the matter via Terry Denham. LST_164 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 22 April , 2008 Share Posted 22 April , 2008 I see your point were they crew on duty - that would make the difference chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oak Posted 6 May , 2008 Share Posted 6 May , 2008 LST, I apologise for the delay in replying to your query. It's been a couple of weeks since I last visited this thread. William John Lewis, Philip Thomas Michael and Edwin George Ferber were City of Dublin Steam Packet Company (CDSPCo) employees who were not on duty on 10 October 1918 and were travelling as passengers on the R.M.S. Leinster. While the Commonwealth War Graves Commission recorded crew members and military passengers of the Leinster who were lost in the sinking, they did not record civilian passengers lost. (Perhaps this is an issue I should raise with them at some point.) I fully agree with you that there "must have been a pretty fine distinction between (these men) and their other colleagues". I would surmise that the reason Lewis, Michael and Ferber were not recorded by the Commonwealth War Graves Commission was that the CDSPCo forwarded them a crew list for the Leinster and the three off-duty men were not on the list. As you probably know for my book, William John Lewis's sister Elizabeth lost her husband Chief Engineer William Mathias in the sinking. Lewis and Mathias lived on Newry Street, Holyhead. Lewis was the brother of Leinster's Chief Steward Llewellyn Lewis, who survived the sinking. In a letter of 14 October 1918 to CDSPCo Secretary Richard Jones, Assistant Purser Bill Sweeney said that he had last seen William John Lewis assisting to launch the forward lifeboat on the Leinster's port side. As previously mentioned, An Post (the Irish Post Office) will issue a commemorative stamp at the end of May. Pals might also find it of interest to visit the website www.rmsleinster.com Regards, Philip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 6 May , 2008 Share Posted 6 May , 2008 Phillip if you see my petition you will see that it is something Im trying to rectify Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oak Posted 6 May , 2008 Share Posted 6 May , 2008 Many thanks Chris, You are engaged in a noble cause. As I'm not a U.K. citizen I'm unable to sign, but I'll write a letter to the Prime Minister myself on behalf of the civilian casualties on the R.M.S. Leinster. Best of luck in your campaign, Philip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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