Teofani railway crossing cemetery, Dadizeelehoek, Flanders

[damiangt]

Thanks again, Marnik! Do you have any knowledge of any local Belgian sources of information about the crossing? Might there even be any German records? I have posted elsewhere on this site a request for any trench maps of the region, and wonder how far we will be able to go in matching up all of the available imagery...

[CROONAERT]

I have posted elsewhere on this site a request for any trench maps of the region,

Damian.

here's a link to a webpage that has a map of interest for you... CLICK HERE

Dave.

[CROONAERT]

..and I can't see any harm in posting an enlargement of this particular section...

[damiangt]

Wow! So it's Kirton farm next to Teofani! Thanks very much...

I don't know where Kirton comes from, though I'm from Devon and Kirton is the well known local slang for Crediton, mid Devon...

Two questions:

Can I take it that the trench map was drawn directly from the aerial photo shown above?

Given that the area was in German hands in 1917 (??) were the names (Teofani, Kirton, etc) invented by the map drawers rather than by Tommy on the ground?

[damiangt]

A letter from the archive...

[CROONAERT]

Two questions:

Can I take it that the trench map was drawn directly from the aerial photo shown above?

Given that the area was in German hands in 1917 (??) were the names (Teofani, Kirton, etc) invented by the map drawers rather than by Tommy on the ground?

Answers to your questions...

1... Not directly, no. The trench map was originally based on a pre-war belgian military map which was re-drawn by either the 2nd or the 5th Field Survey Company (RE) in May/June 1917. Trenches, dumps, tracks, etc were updated via the use of aerial photos such as the one above (amongst other methods) but probably not that particular photo. That particular photo could possibly have been used in the previous edition map which was dated 3/9/1917. Photos for the map which I've included would have been taken up to 5/12/17 and could have included some significany differences.

2...A bit of both. Many of the names would have been given to the particular places early on in the war (with more being added as the war progressed) to aid in identification. Don't forget that many of the "map drawers" actually were "Tommy on the ground" too - Royal Engineers FSC's and FSBs. The names arrive from a vast variety of sources.

Dave.

[damiangt]

I don't know how the maps are catalogued now, but when I was researching the aerial photo, perhaps ten or fifteen years ago, I had to search through a very old, dusty wooden filing cabinet with hand written index cards. I wonder if they have now been computerised? In some ways I hope not, it was fun doing primary research!

[CROONAERT]

I don't know how the maps are catalogued now, but when I was researching the aerial photo, perhaps ten or fifteen years ago, I had to search through a very old, dusty wooden filing cabinet with hand written index cards. I wonder if they have now been computerised? In some ways I hope not, it was fun doing primary research!

No idea how they're catalogued - never had to look for one! All the maps I use are from my own personal "map library"(with a "pull a pile out and hope for the best" cataloguing system!!! )

dave

[damiangt]

Sounds like my system too! Nevertheless it's amazing to see how much has happened since computer indexing came in - the IWM, the national maritime museum, the PRO, CWGC, etc...

Has the lottery been helping?

[damiangt]

Cigarette cards from Teofani "Weapons of war" series B:

Mustard Gas:

[damiangt]

Service Revolver:

[damiangt]

Thanks to the internet and this site I have been contacted by the chairman of the Ledeghem historical society and learned that there are annual remembrances for the men who fell in battle at Teofani. Whilst it is pretty rough round the edges I have put most of my information on the web for any interested parties.

There is a lot of work to make the site user friendly but the raw text makes the point..

www.nahpoo.co.uk

[Guest Aberfan1966]

I believe that my great-uncle (Private John Leonard White - 45264 - W company, 4th Battalion, Worcestershire Regiment) was originally buried at Teofani Railway Crossing. He was one of the people who were killed on 14/10/1918 and mentioned in an earlier part of this posting. He was called Leonard by the family and my father (who was born in 1924) was the first male born in the family after his uncle's death, and was therefore named Leonard after him. The family story is that Leonard White was a Motorbike Dispatch Rider.

Incidentally, I've been reading some things on the Worcestershire Regiment website which seems to indicate that a lot of the railways in the area were "light" railways. Maybe that indicates that they were specifically built during the Great War for transporting troops/equipment around.

[flip]

This railroad linked the cities of Menen and Roeselare, Ledegem being somewhere in between. It was there since the end of the 19th century. The railway station in Ledegem was used by the Germans to supply the front lines. During 1917, a new defence line was built from Ledegem onwards (Flandern Stellung III). An impressive bunker in our town is now open to the public. Narrow track started from Ledegem railway station to the front lines. The presence of this railway station was a target for the allied forces: the town was bombed regularly. There were two attempts to liberate our town: 1/10/18 and 14/10/18 (the Last Hundred Days of the Battle of Courtrai).

[Guest]

Hi folks - first time poster here.

 

Hopefully the system will notify other users that this section has a new post as I see it is a while since others posted (very interesting and useful - thank you).

 

For what it is worth, my interest in the Railway Crossing cemetery is that my Grandfather's brother, Herbert Downes of the 5th Bn (serving with 1stBn) Lancashire Fusiliers was temporarily buried there before being moved to Dadiziele CWG in (I believe) 1924. He was killed on 14 October 1918.

 

The description we have in family papers of the original burial site states it was marked with a roadside Crucifix. If you follow Google Earth there is still a small crucifix at the end of the drive to the farm near the railway crossing (now a cycle path), and I assume the initial burials were in the field adjoining the road.

 

My understanding from regimental papers is that the Lancs Fusiliers were in the first part of the action on the morning of 14 October 1918 in what became the Battle of Courtrai (or Fifth Ypres?). From the war diary we believe he was killed some time between 0400 when the attack started and 0700 when the battalion went firm on its objective. Once the Lancs Fusiliers had reached their objective the Inniskilling Fusiliers moved through their position to continue the assault, which would have been when the original poster's relative was killed. I assume, as there were men from both battalions (and Worcesters) buried in this small patch near the railway crossing that the "handover" position must have been close to here, possibly at the German blockhouse in the field opposite which is mentioned in Lancs Fusiliers docs.

 

Our plan is to mark the centenary of his death with a family trip to visit his grave and see the area he was killed in and initially buried this October.

Edited 24 August , 2018 by Guest
spelling

[MaxD]

Greetings!

 

Just to note that CWGC and his army record spells his name Downs.  The reburial is dated Feb 1920. The account of the attack (attached) in the war diary differs a little in timings.

 

Max

[bartensabien]

 

Lt Irvine and 18 other men (mailnly 1st RIF) were burried at 28L14.a 5.8

 

[Guest]

It's years since I've been to this site and since then I've changed my email account.  Anyhow - we went back at the weekend for the 100th Anniversary of the death of my great uncle.  We took a couple of up to date pictures showing the exact site of the graves at Teofani.  The farmer came out and helped us confirm the landmarks as they used to be.  So the graves were lined up just next to the farm track, just where the grass is visible on this photo.  Go up to my posts of 28 & 29 June 2006 and it should make sense..

 

[Neil Mackenzie]

On 01/07/2006 at 09:44, damiangt said:

Thanks to everyone who has helped with this thread. Here is my list of men who I believe to have been buried at Teofani. The list is somewhat speculative, based upon my Great Uncle's archive and various other sources. Might it be possible that the CWGC hold records for this cemetery to confirm my list, or to add to it?

2Lt CW Irvine DNBC VI D 2 aged 19.

L/Cpl W Murphy 44440 died 14/15th October DNBC VI C 26

Pte E Aspinall 49598 died 14/15th October DNBC VI C 29 aged 24.

Pte J Bailey 49599 died 14/15th October DNBC VI C 28

Pte Henry Bishop 45017 died 14/15th October DNBC VI c 28 aged 19

Pte WJ Bray 43721 died 14/15th October DNBC VI C 31

Pte SG Brown 27114 died 15th October DNBC V C 2

Pte WRT Carter 47131 died 14/15th October DNBC VI C 34

Pte John D Fisher 45051 died 14/15th October DNBC VI E 12 aged 19

Pte John Harris 41682 died 15th October DCC II A 1 aged 20

Pte HC Hartwell 47072 died 14/15th October DNBC VI C 32 aged 19

Pte Frank H Haswell 47073 died 14/15th October DNBC II A 11 aged 19

Pte T Mc Givern 24701 died 14/15th October DNBC VI F 24 aged 27

Pte L Moore 31602 died 14th October DNBC II A 28

Pte W Williams 47242 died 14/15th October DNBC VI C 33 aged 23

DNBC: Dadizeele New British Cemetery.

DCC: Dadizeele Communal Cemetery.

The concentration reports on the CWGC website for all the men whose grave markers are shown in the picture in post 2 also include a number of other men who were initially buried at Teofani Crossing. Apart from Irvine (because he was an officer?) all the men moved from there were buried in row VI.C at Dadizeele.

 

Neil

[leibregiment]

Here is 47131 Pte W R T Carter plaque and medals