Royal Engineers Special Brigade

[Terry_Reeves]

There were quite a few men in the Special Brigade who had degrees but were not commissioned. There are reasons for this, for instance they may not have the demonstrated leadership skills and other qualities required for an officer nor indeed perhaps,  wanted to be one.

 

TR

Edited 3 April , 2020 by Terry_Reeves

[GWM]

Good evening Terry, I have taken a great interest in this topic over the last year or so - as I have been doing research on my Great Uncle - Bertie Mitchell who became a Pioneer in January 1916 after being attested in Ayrshire and being originally part of The Scottish Rifles. His Special Brigade number was 128798. He served in 189 Brigade in sections 35 and 38. I have his Medical Records and they tell me that he was "gassed by mustard" on 31st July 1918 near Avion. Leading to his eventual discharge from the Army in December 1918, and onto a pension. 

His records state that he was made 50% disabled by the gassing and that he was predicted to succumb to Tuberculosis and that there was no likely outcome of getting better. He did pass away from the gas-induced internal injuries in 1919.  May I ask your good self if you perhaps know/can find out what happened on 31st July 1918 at Avion, (perhaps like the above?

Very many Thanks in advance - G. Mitchell 

[Terry_Reeves]

GW

 

I have looked at his pension record and it appears he was serving with F Special Company. Neither the war diary, nor the operational records mention operations on the 31/7/18.  It might be that he was gassed during a setting-up operation, but even then there is nothing in any of the records to indicate this anywhere near Avion. 

 

Just out of interest 189 Company, one of the original 1915 units, ceased to exist at the end of February 1916 when the Special Companies were expanded into the Special Brigade.

 

If I find anything that might indicate his whereabouts on 31.7.18 I will let you know.

 

TR

 

 

[GWM]

Dear Terry, many, many thanks for taking the time to look for some details on my behalf, you are very kind and enthusiastic.

 

Gosh "F" company, I shall have to go through all my copy documents that I have. I must admit with relation to those documents, the hand writing is so often very difficult to read/ interpret. I do wonder if this "speeded-up" looking handwriting was due to the terrible caseloads to get through, with all those chaps being hurt. Also I have read previously, in this very thorough thread about the War Diaries - and I note that the National Archives will be allowing free access quite soon - due to coronavirus keeping us all indoors. I will take and heed your advice and try to download the F company records.  

 

I know he departed from the Theatre of War on around the 13th September and was accepted into Eastbourne Hospital.  

 

Once again thank you, I have certainly good some new leads to work on Terry.  

 

Best Regards Gary. 

[clk]

Hi Gary,

 

FMP have a partial record which intimates that Bertie was in 7 Stationary Hospital on 8th August 1918, though the page is headed up 'Progress Report..'. Unfortunately, what's to the right of it, and to the right of his record entry is missing.

 

Image sourced from Findmypast

 

Regards

Chris

 

[GWM]

Good evening gentlemen, I see I have another piece of information from "Chris" - well thank you too Chris, I am very impressed by your research and then display of the document which indicates a really interesting piece of the unfortunate Lad`s story from the Great War. 7 Stationary Hospital - 08.08.18, and also the detail recorded there that he was serving in F Special Co. Thank you very much indeed Chris. 

 

I have been going over the copies of the medical and army forms which I have in my possession - and I can see Chris and indeed Terry -  that on the Army Form B. 179A - It can be discerned that in the record - section No.1 Unit and Corps is entered  R.E. F. Special Co. (and another form details the number 35. 

 

Terry, once again super work sir, I am beginning to wonder if some of the "Statement of Case" records on the above form B.179A might be inaccurate due to overwork by the people filling them in!  I think your suggestion that some kind of "accident" might have occurred at some point in late July 1918 which gave rise to the gassing incident, however as I`ve tried to understand the reporting officer`s handwriting I may have been inaccurate in deciphering the word mustard - when in fact it might be a different word.  For Mustard gas was used by the Germans and not the Allies, so that gives rise to even more confusion. 

 

So gentlemen thank you and I`m further on by communication with you both. 

 

Regards Gary

[GWM]

Dear Terry, that interesting comment about the 189 company ceasing to exist, led me to look up the Order of Battle for the Special Brigade and yes indeed I see that in 1916 Bertie would have been in the 2nd Battalion F company. (section 35). 

 

I really do feel more confident now about beginning a session of far more accurate lead-following than I previously had. So thank you Sir. 

[Terry_Reeves]

Gary

 

This might be of general interest for you regarding gas casualties:

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5131841/

 

TR

 

 

[GWM]

Dear Terry, that is indeed a formidably well researched paper, which details some astute observations made by medical-men of the time. 

 

For example: when observing how gassed men became increasingly neurotic after the event - One Doctor wrote:

 

"...Knowledge can, but does not necessarily, serve as an effective defence against irrational fear.⁷⁶ However, mastering protective measures and diagnosing the differences between different types of gas took considerable training..."^7"

 

 

It was also very interesting to read some detail about the No7 Stationary Hospital in Boulogne (Chris) where a the RAMC doctor T.R Elliot was pioneering some studies about gas victims, whereby he concluded

"...no casualties need to be invalidated for a longer period of 3 months and that the majority are soon fit for active duty"

 

But he also observes that any patient who exhibited an irregular heartbeat in the 3rd week of admission should be transferred to the UK for rest - Which is incredibly interesting to me for the "Bertie" research as Chris`s record shows he was at the Stationary Hospital from the 08.08.18 and I have records that he was shipped back to England on the 13.09.18. This fact does make me understand that Bertie was "overly-exposed" to poison gas. His English hospital medical report diagnoses Cardiac Bruits, blood swishes around the heart and terrible catarrh affected by the weather. 

 

Also, Terry another brilliant detail which I gleaned was a reference to a National Archive WO142/101 which showed the statistics for Mustard gas cases treated at Stationary Hospital 7 indicates that between May to Oct 1918 there were 254 admissions, 8 deaths and 57 evacuations back to England - Bertie must have been 1 of these poor chaps. 

 

So Thank you for the link, excellent stuff. 

Gary

 

[Terry_Reeves]

Gary

 

Mustard gas was the largest casualty producer of the war gases but not the largest fatality producer. Mustard "gas", a vesicant or blistering agent,  was actually dispensed as droplets and was particularly useful against artillery positions for  instance as the droplets contaminated equipment which then required de-contamination with sodium hypochlorate , a bleaching agent. It also contaminated the soil, and many soldiers suffered burns on the buttocks and thighs.

 

TR

[GWM]

It has been an invaluable experience posting for help on this thread, on this forum, so Thank you once again Terry and also to Chris for that hospitalisation record. 

Terry, I am in a much better position to understand records and sources - given your help all along this thread - Thank you Sir. 

I have begun to realise the extent of the mechanisms of recording details and perhaps also the change of attitude to those affected on the battlefield by studies which were emerging given so much wounding "data" - those poor and dearly beloved fellows who gave up their lives in the Allied effort to halt aggression in Europe. 

 

"War is politics by another means" etc...

 

Regards Gary. 

 

[generalist]

One more for the list -

 

Sapper Wilfred SMITH, 209621, A Reserve Company Special Brigade (1916-17) then Z Special Company (1917).

 

He enlisted in 3/5th Leicestershire Regiment (4015 then 6838) on 13th April 1915, and was transferred to the North Midland Divisional RE on 26th November 1916 (4/1st North Midland Field Company, I think?). One day later, on 27th November 1916, he was transferred to A Reserve Company, Special Brigade, Royal Engineers. The papers are annotated "Group 41 (Student) S" which may signify something in this context.

 

He was sent to France on 19 December 1916, and joined Z Special Company as a clerk on 24 February 1917. He was formally remustered as "Sapper (Clerk)" on 26 May 1917, which process prompted a surprising amount of correspondence around the exact significance of his one day in the Territorial RE. He was admitted to hospital on 10 June 1917, returned to the company on 2 July, returned to England on 20 August "for commission", and then transferred formally to the Special Brigade depot on 24 September. On 30 June 1918, based in St. John's Wood, he was discharged to take up a temporary commission in the Royal Field Artillery (records look likely to be WO 374/63822).

 

Smith's service records are on Ancestry and make interesting reading - in addition to the lengthy dispute about when they were allowed to rate him proficient, there is some definite creativity with age. At the time he enlisted, he claimed to be 19 years 4 months, and a council school-teacher. When he transferred, he gave age at enlistment as 19 years 102 days, which would give him a very convenient birthday of 1 January. By the time the Royal Engineers were handling his paperwork (and presumably it no longer mattered), he had revised this to being a student aged 17 years 5 months, and later on 17 years 4 days. (The regimental number and other details remain consistent, so I'm confident it's the same man.). He was 13 on the 1911 census, so this seems a bit more likely to be the truth.

Edited 23 April , 2020 by generalist

[Terry_Reeves]

generalist

 

Thanks for posting. I have a few men in my SB database who enlisted underage and were sent back to the UK, but were retained by the military authorities until such time they were old enough to go overseas again. One was the son of a serving army officer! 

 

TR

Edited 23 April , 2020 by Terry_Reeves

[GWM]

Dear Terry and Chris, I have been able to direct my studies in a very confident manner, thanks to you chaps. I have been able to compile the "FULL" account of my Great Uncle Bertie Mitchell`s Special Company F World War 1 experience. The experience which sadly curtailed his life, as with so many, many other men and [boys].

 

The War Diary for company F is particularly legible and I was delighted to read it by download from the National Archives. For the record and other interested readers on this high quality website, F Special Coy RE received their SECRET - OPERATION ORDER GF/16 on the 31st of July 1918 the "intention" of which was to

 

"...project 1000 gas drums from the 8th Divn front onto the enemy in the MERICOURT area on the nights 2/3 Aug or first subsequent night on which the wind is favourable" 

 

Subsequently the War Diary for the 1st August 1918 there is an entry which reads -

 

"...Casualties LT.K.C.BAXTER and 40 other ranks wounded (gas) Yellow Cross" 

 

As you learned Gentlemen understand the Yellow Cross is the Mustard Gas cylinder. It is recorded that some "...Half Dozen shell were dropped mid afternoon. 200yd to the north".

What we also understand about Mustard Gas (from that superb academic report,Terry) is that the soldiers exposed to this chemical would not feel its "effects" immediately. Indeed the War Diary records that no effects were felt until 6am on return from work, the men had however fixed 960 projectiles into position in time. The men are recorded as being withdrawn from forward billets and the line.

 

I was able to find a map from The Times newspaper showing the Arras/ Lens/ Vimy Ridge area and locate the ville of Mericourt, the area where the enemy were to be assaulted. To my great interest just 1.5 miles to the NW is the smaller ville of AVION - the place which is recorded on his Army Medical report - IT ALL NOW MAKES A LOGICAL SENSE. 

 

I once again, offer my thank you chaps for giving my researches an accurate direction and knowledge of more sources of information Superb. I will now be relaying what I have found out to our family, who only Know Bertie from his 2 ww1 medals and that "he was gassed".

 

Thank you Gary.M

[Guest]

Dear Terry,

came across this thread while researching a cemetery in Low Moor, Bradford, West Yorks. Interred in this cemetery is George Sargent, born Low Moor 1884, died 1932, Idle, Bradford. He was a technical chemist and manager of a dye works company.

Enlisted 10/12/1915 aged 31y 112days. Pioneer, 335061. Applied to join the Royal Engineers as a chemist in April 1918 with references from Bradford Technical College and past and present employers. Mobilised 8/5/1918 and appointed to the Royal Engineers Special Brigade. Appointed 8/7/1918 to the R6 Special Brigade Special Co. "N" and posted to France. 12/11/1918 transferred to the UK for Special Duty. On his discharge form, dated 25/11/1918, under the question, Nature and Locality of Employment Desired is written; Controller of gun ammunitions filling, Ministry of Munitions, Whitehall, SW1.

I have not been able, so far, to find out what happened to George after the war

Regards, Paul Towers

[Terry_Reeves]

Paul

 

Welcome to the forum and thanks very much for the information. I suspect he had his call up deferred on occupational grounds. I have a number of men with particular qualifications and/or experience transferred to various government departments, in particular to the Ministry of Munitions. N Company was part of 4th Battalion, Special Brigade responsible for cylinder gas and the use of the Livens Projector. I have checked the company war diary but he is not mentioned.

 

Just out of interest, I have another man who was also employed by the same firm as George Sargent, Pioneer Alan Whitehead. He was Chief Assistant Chemist in the company's laboratory and like George, was not mobilised until 1918. I think  we can be certain that they knew each other.

 

TR

 

 

Edited 2 May , 2020 by Terry_Reeves

[Andy Heaton]

Hi Terry,

 

I wonder if you might be able to tell me anything about Bill Fishwick - see image.  

 

The biography (which was written at the end of 1958) gives quite a bit of information about Bill's life up to retirement, but it doesn't provide any specific details about which company he was in.  It just states that he joined the Special Brigade in 1916.

 

Thank you for any information that you might be able to provide.

 

 

[MaxD]

The only William (or W or Wm) Fishwick that appears in the RE medal rolls was 187217 Pioneer William Fishwick.  (here are very few Fishwicks) .  The rank of Pioneer would fit with trench digging and pipe fitting.  No indication of his company found.  I don't find a Silver War Badge relating to an invaliding out or a pension record. 

 

Max

[dink999]

I have managed over the years to compile a list of admissions to Gloucestershire Red Cross Hospitals from various sources including local papers. On my list is a W. Fishwick, Lance Corporal, R.E. in the Glos Echo 17 April 1918, admitted "Sunday last" to the  Bishop's Palace, Gloucester.

 

You can see a picture of the building here Bishops Palace it is now part of the King's School and used as senior classrooms.

 

Dave

[Terry_Reeves]

Andy

 

Thanks for posting. I can't add much to what has already been said I'm afraid. It looks like he was with a cylinder company from the description in the article which would narrow it down to 1 - 4 Battalions. I have checked the war diaries for all the battalions and companies, but he is not mentioned. He does not have a pension record nor a post-war pension card. 

 

He was born on 17th January, 1893. He married Ella Blackwell of 14 Tudor St , Gloucester at Gloucester  on 25 Sept 1920.  This would fit in with some of the information in the article and Dinks post above. His address in the marriage register is given as 287 Moor Rd, Chorley, Lancs and his profession as chemist. In the 1939 Register he is residing at New Mills, Derbyshire and is a chemist colourist (Calico print textile).

 

I will flag him up and let you know if anything turns up.

 

 

TR

Edited 7 May , 2020 by Terry_Reeves

[Andy Heaton]

Max, Dink & Terry,

 

Thank you so much , for all the information provided . . . and so quickly, too - highly impressive & most kind of you.  I shall point Bill's family in the direction of this forum - I'm sure that they be very interested & most appreciative of your contributions.

 

In the company of my grandfather, I actually met Bill Fishwick in the early 70s - they were friends for almost 60 years.  Bill commented at the time, that he'd served in WWI with my grandfather - John S. Heaton (106528).  I believe that my grandfather was in 188 and latterly, in L Company & I assumed that Bill might have been in that company.

 

What I find remarkable, is that through this forum, I've been in direct contact, with the relations of four soldiers who served in the Special Brigade - all of whom, my grandfather would have known personally - either through Liverpool University, or through working in the textile trade.  

 

Thank you again, for providing this information, which enables families to have a clearer picture of what their forefathers did in WW1; on a wider level, such information is seemingly unimportant, but on a personal level, it is invaluable.

 

Best wishes,

 

Andy

Edited 7 May , 2020 by Andy Heaton

[JonathanHacker]

Hello Andy

I was interested to see that Bill Fishwick attended Salford Royal Technical Institute, as I believe it was called.  My Grandfather, James Norman Lovett, who was born in 1894, also attended the Institute - around 1910-1914.  He trained as a chemist and ended up in No. 2 Special Company, RE.  His war record reveals he suffered from 'shell shock' - which I now know was a very contentious issue at the time.  He married my Grandmother after the war and kept quiet about his wartime experiences.

I had hoped to trace his footsteps in France and Belgium in March this year, but of course the current pandemic prevented this.  Maybe when it's safer to travel I'll try again.

I wonder if Bill knew my Grandfather.

Jonathan

[Andy Heaton]

On 07/05/2020 at 14:36, JonathanHacker said:

Hello Andy

I was interested to see that Bill Fishwick attended Salford Royal Technical Institute, as I believe it was called.  My Grandfather, James Norman Lovett, who was born in 1894, also attended the Institute - around 1910-1914.  He trained as a chemist and ended up in No. 2 Special Company, RE.  His war record reveals he suffered from 'shell shock' - which I now know was a very contentious issue at the time.  He married my Grandmother after the war and kept quiet about his wartime experiences.

I had hoped to trace his footsteps in France and Belgium in March this year, but of course the current pandemic prevented this.  Maybe when it's safer to travel I'll try again.

I wonder if Bill knew my Grandfather.

Jonathan

 

Hi Jonathan,

 

I think that there would be a very strong chance that Bill knew your grandfather; out of interest, what industry did your grandfather enter after the war ?

 

Andy

[JonathanHacker]

Hello Andy

My Grandfather worked as an analytical chemist for the rest of his working life. I think he may have worked for a water company.  He lived in Staffordshire and retired down near Eastbourne.  Attached is a photo of his wedding to my Grandmother.

Jonathan

[HolymoleyRE]

Hi Terry, 

 

For your interest and records, I have recently picked up a couple of medal groups to 2 Chemist Corporals, and some Ephemera belonging to Captain Henry Edward Cooper RE, reportedly OC of the HQ Special Brigade Depot at some point.

 

The Corporals are 

 

120602 Corporal Edmund Morris Needham 188th Company, late Royal Welsh Fusiliers, and brief stint with the Machine Gun Corps. Might of imagined it, but is there a connection between the Special Brigade & MGC, he was a Science teacher from Ebbw Vale before and after the war. 

 

113259 Corporal Harold Blanchard Chapman, either 186th or 187th Company, late Cheshire Regiment, from Runcorn, the 1939 Register has him as Works Chemist.

 

Regards 

Andy