Guest andypool Posted 1 March , 2011 Share Posted 1 March , 2011 Terry - my great uncle, Robert Ashton Pool joined the East Surrey Regiment in London in August 1914 and transferred to 187 Special Company in Jul/Aug. 1915. The 1901 census said he was a14 year old apprentice chemist in Edinburgh which is presumably why he transferred to the RE. His RE number was 112160 but he was kiklled in action on 26 September 1915. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry_Reeves Posted 1 March , 2011 Author Share Posted 1 March , 2011 Andy Many thanks for the information. Do you have a photograph of him? TR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest andypool Posted 1 March , 2011 Share Posted 1 March , 2011 Sadly, no. Do you have any idea what he might have been doing on the 26th? I would have thought the Company would have been withdrawn after the 25th. Also, do you know where the 187 Company were positioned on the 25th? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinhat47 Posted 7 May , 2011 Share Posted 7 May , 2011 I have another Special Brigade man for you, Terry. He's 128343 Pnr. John M. Young, who was originally with the 13th Battalion, East Yorks (the T'Others) who was part of a bunch of East Yorks men who were transferred to the Special Brigade. I haven't pinned it down yet, but he was either in G or H Coy., although I'm leaning toward G -- 2nd Battalion at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry_Reeves Posted 7 May , 2011 Author Share Posted 7 May , 2011 Matt That is interesting, the medal roll shows Pioneer Alfred Newlove as having that RE number, formerly 211, 11th East Yorkshire Regt. . Whilst the MIC's for both men show them with the same RE number, John M Young is shown on the roll with the number 128346 TR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinhat47 Posted 8 May , 2011 Share Posted 8 May , 2011 Strange -- I've never seen anything like that before. Does the medal roll say what Pnr. Young's middle initial stands for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry_Reeves Posted 8 May , 2011 Author Share Posted 8 May , 2011 Matt No it doesn't. TR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Hone Posted 8 May , 2011 Share Posted 8 May , 2011 Terry-Years ago when this thread started I mentioned Bury Grammar School old boy Lieutenant Robert Hardman of 1st Company, 5th Brigade who was killed on the First Day of the Somme. In preparation for a commemorative visit on our school battlefields tour this October I am trying to identify the exact position near Martinsart from which his C Section attacked at Zero Hour on 1st July. Do you have any information on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crackingbloke Posted 8 May , 2011 Share Posted 8 May , 2011 I have for you 192875 Cpl A E Thompson he won his MM with the Special Brigade and lived in Kingsthorpe Northamptonshire. Also 130683 Pnr H Faulkner kia with 5th Brigade from Moulton Northamptonshire Guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry_Reeves Posted 8 May , 2011 Author Share Posted 8 May , 2011 Mark Unfortunately I can't help. The unit war diaries for the Brigade only exist from March 1917. No 4 Company Operation Orders from 1916 are at the NA but will be of no help for this sort of detail. 5th Battalion had 17 operations on 1 July, all the mortars firing smoke ammunition. TR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry_Reeves Posted 8 May , 2011 Author Share Posted 8 May , 2011 I have for you 192875 Cpl A E Thompson he won his MM with the Special Brigade and lived in Kingsthorpe Northamptonshire. Also 130683 Pnr H Faulkner kia with 5th Brigade from Moulton Northamptonshire Guy Guy Many thanks for the information. TR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinhat47 Posted 22 May , 2011 Share Posted 22 May , 2011 Here's another. He's 214554 Pnr. G.H. Mirams. He was part of a large group of men from the 1st (Reserve) Garrison Battalion of the Worcestershire Regiment (his Worcs number was 35643) who were transferred to The Special Brigade. There seems to be no pattern to where they ended up in the unit, although several did serve in the Special Factory Company. No service papers exist for Pnr. Mirams, so I don't know where he served. Since the MICs for nearly all of these men have only their initials, I was wondering if the medal rolls had what "G. H." stood for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinhat47 Posted 29 May , 2011 Share Posted 29 May , 2011 And you probably already have information on this man, No. 186518 Pnr. Charles Henry Goullee BROWN. He was with 'B' Coy. of the Special Brigade and was killed in action on Aug. 19, 1917 during the attack on Hill 70. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Pudney Posted 29 May , 2011 Share Posted 29 May , 2011 Fascinating thread.... I stumbled across it whilst searching for information about this man: Name:Frederick Thomas Croydon Payton Birth Place:Walsall, Staffs Residence:Ashbourne, Staffs Death Date:1 Jul 1916 Death Location:France & Flanders Enlistment Location:Stoke-On-Trent, Staffs Rank:Corporal Regiment:Corps of Royal Engineers Number:106617 Type of Casualty:Killed in action Theatre of War:Western European Theatre Comments:Formerly 8622, R Fus. (5Th Battn., Spec Bde., R.E.) He is buried at Carnoy Military Cem. and commemorated on the War Memorial at St. John's School Leatherhead (where I work). From the previous posts I gather he was likely to be involved in mortar operations on the 1st July? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry_Reeves Posted 30 May , 2011 Author Share Posted 30 May , 2011 Matt Thank you, I did know about them. Neil. I do have all the fatalities, from Soldiers Died and CWGC but thanks anyway. Frederick Payton was one of the original enlistments into the Special Companies and it is likely that he was with a mortar section. I am always interested in any additional information about these men, and have received a lot of help from contributors to this thread, including photographs. Thanks to all concerned and please keep the information coming. TR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Pudney Posted 30 May , 2011 Share Posted 30 May , 2011 Matt Thank you, I did know about them. Neil. I do have all the fatalities, from Soldiers Died and CWGC but thanks anyway. Frederick Payton was one of the original enlistments into the Special Companies and it is likely that he was with a mortar section. I am always interested in any additional information about these men, and have received a lot of help from contributors to this thread, including photographs. Thanks to all concerned and please keep the information coming. TR Thanks Terry - I'll see if we have anything relevant in the School archives, possibly even a photograph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John(txic) Posted 30 May , 2011 Share Posted 30 May , 2011 I am researching Dudley's Clock Tower War Memorial. One of our men is 534926 Pioneer John Knott, of 3rd Special Coy. RE. Died on 9th April 1918 and recorded on the Ploegsteert Memorial. Any background information upon what this Company were up to at the time would be gratefully received. Cheers, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry_Reeves Posted 31 May , 2011 Author Share Posted 31 May , 2011 John I was a bit suprised to find him in the Special Brigade as his RE number was issued to 491 Field Company, a territorial unit. Nevertheless, all sorts of things happened in WW1. No 3 Company was part of 5th Battalion, Special Brigade, and operated the 4 inch Stokes Mortar which dispensed smoke,chemical ammunition and Thermite ammunition. They have a war diary at the NA: WO 95/332 3 Special Mortar Company Royal Engineers 1917 Mar. - 1919 July. TR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John(txic) Posted 1 June , 2011 Share Posted 1 June , 2011 Thanks, Terry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaynorH Posted 22 June , 2011 Share Posted 22 June , 2011 Hello - I think I may be the only woman on this Forum, and whilst I'm not a great military history buff (much prefer social history) I think I have something which may interest many of you, and perhaps you can help expand my findings. My Great Uncle, Herbert McKell died of wounds on March 1st 1917 and whilst we have always known certain things about him, only this week have I started to really unravel more of his story. He is buried at Villers Station Cemetery in Pas de Calais, in a long line of Canadian Infantry. Visiting for the first time (with my mother - he was her father's brother) in 2000, it dawned on us that he must have been involved in the run up to the battle for Vimy Ridge. At this point we deduced that as a Royal Engineer, he'd been involved in tunnelling. My mother also stated that "they were experimenting with gas & the wind changed" and we thought that he'd been gassed (by his own gas) We knew he'd been attached to the Canadian Regiments as a Canadian who'd been with him when he died, visited my Great Grandmother and brought his cap badge, which she had made into a brooch. This week I had a brain wave and noted from the cemetry register those who'd died on the same day, and which battalions they were with. This led me to a brilliant Canadian archive site which has digitised all the War Diaries etc, so I've been able to really draw up a picture of what transpired in the days leading up to, and on the 1st March 1917. I found that indeed there had been a major attack using gas, and that the wind had changed (which stopped them letting off the 2nd phase) and all sorts of other info. Then somehow I stumbled across this forum, and realised that it is likely that Herbert was a Chemical Corporal - not a tunneller after all. So here's some info His medal records state that he was originally in the West Yorkshire Regiment, number 617. However he was made Corporal in the RE and entered France on 24th August 1915, so reading your forum, this makes him one of the first draft. His number was 106636. He got the 1915 Star and Victory Medal (though how when he'd died I don't know) His CGWC detail states he was in the 3rd Spec Coy. Another RE who is buried nearby and died on same day is cited as 3rd Spec Btn, so I'm wondering if there's a diff between Company and battalion? His parents were James and Edith McKell of 21, Westfield Terrace, Undercliffe, Bradford Having just checked the 1911 census I learned he was aged 14 and an aniline colour merchant (laboratory) so it all fits! This forum has just been amazing in helping me find out more about him - but can anybody add anymore. I suspect he was at Loos, and also might even be on one of those photos. I will have to buy Jeremy Mitchell's book!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaynorH Posted 22 June , 2011 Share Posted 22 June , 2011 Hi Terry I am researching my Great Uncle and any information you have about the duties and locations of the 2nd Special Bn. Royal Enginners during WW1 would be appreciated, particularly around the time of my Great Uncles death. Casualty Details: William Herbert Straw Pioneer Royal Engineers 2nd Special Bn. Age: 20 Date Of Death: 05/04/1917 Service No. 156585 Son Of William Barker Straw and Louisa Straw of 20 Granby St., Ilkeston,Derbyshire Buried at : Villers Station Cemetery, Villers-Au-Bois My understanding is that he was a gas operator. Incidentally his brother, my Grandfather, Stephen Henry Straw, also served alongside William and, although twice wounded, survived the war. I am pretty new to this, but have a keen interest in miliatary history so any hints would be great. Many Thanks James My Great Uncle Herbert McKell is also buried at Villers Station - I've posted a long tale about him - he was killed on 1st March 1917 (also aged 20) There's a lot of info in Canadian War Diaries, they were working with the Canadian Battalions - if you google 54th Battalion Canadian Infantrty it should take you on an interesting internet journey!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Heaton Posted 23 June , 2011 Share Posted 23 June , 2011 This forum has just been amazing in helping me find out more about him - but can anybody add anymore. I suspect he was at Loos, and also might even be on one of those photos. I'd be really pleased, if someone could spot one of their relations on the photos that I've posted; sadly, I haven't any details to go with them. I will have to buy Jeremy Mitchell's book!! I can thoroughly recommend it - I have a (signed) copy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Heaton Posted 23 June , 2011 Share Posted 23 June , 2011 Hello - I think I may be the only woman on this Forum, Don't let that discourage you ! This led me to a brilliant Canadian archive site which has digitised all the War Diaries etc, so I've been able to really draw up a picture of what transpired in the days leading up to, and on the 1st March 1917. I've just found that site - thank's for the info. about it. I wish we had more digitised info. available . . . . . . . maybe one day . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob lembke Posted 23 June , 2011 Share Posted 23 June , 2011 I have studied the Special Brigade a bit, mostly pursuing my interest in the development of the flame-thrower, and I came across, at least twice, accounts of this unit doing tank gas discharges when the wind was blowing in the wrong direction; in one case the men opened the valves and then fled with the wrenches, and the infantry left behind were not able to close the valves. Foulkes, the Special Brigade commander, was very energetic, but sometimes seemed to make odd technical decisions, and seems to have been a real bulldog, so perhaps the men saw a greater downside to dis-obeying detailed written orders than to gassing your own men. (I might add that such a decision would have been almost unthinkable in the German Army, which had a surprisingly very high tolerance of disobeying direct orders if you thought better of it, although it was much better if you were actually correct.) So you might keep that in mind as you study the engagement, if you heard something about "a change in wind direction". If that occurred, Special Brigade material might not mention it, but the war diaries of units in the area might be more candid. Foulkes, to my mind, was quite a promoter, and did a lot to spin the history of the war, to the extent that it involved him. He certainly did that in regard to flame-throwers. Bob Lembke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Heaton Posted 23 June , 2011 Share Posted 23 June , 2011 I have studied the Special Brigade a bit, mostly pursuing my interest in the development of the flame-thrower, and I came across, at least twice, accounts of this unit doing tank gas discharges when the wind was blowing in the wrong direction; in one case the men opened the valves and then fled with the wrenches, and the infantry left behind were not able to close the valves. Hi Bob, If you haven't read it already, I can thoroughly recommend the following book : Flamethrower Troops of World War 1: The Central and Allied Powers - by Thomas Wictor It is a very detailed & well-researched book and has a small amount of info. on The Special Brigade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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