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Terry_Reeves

Royal Engineers Special Brigade

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plattyuk

Hi Terry,

 

I've recently acquired the Great War pair of medals to Lieutenant Frederick Martin Ray. His service papers held at the national archives are sparse but did show that this last posting was given as Royal Engineers, Special Brigade, No 2 GHQ Chemistry School. His civilian occupation was given as School Master.

 

I was wondering if you had ever come across this officer during your research into the Special Brigade.

 

Many thanks

 

Mark 

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Terry_Reeves
Posted (edited)

Mark

 

I have a record for a Lt F. M. Ray. He gained his BSc  at London University, however his occupation is given as works chemist.

 

Temp Lt Royal Fusliers. 1.7.17

T Lt RE  1.11.17

Depot Special Brigade 6.12.17

"O" Special Company 15.12.17

Special Factory Section 3.6.18

Demobilised 2.2.19.

 

Does any of this appear in his record? I do have some more information for him post-war, but I wonder if we can match up some of what we have so far?

 

TR

 

Edited by Terry_Reeves

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plattyuk

Terry,

 

The only information relating to the Special Brigade in his service file is the attached page.

 

The 1939 Register has his as a works manager of a chemical company in Stockton - on - Tees.

 

Ray (8).JPG

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plattyuk

 

Ray was briefly remobilised in 1921 when we was a Private in the 5th Durham Light Inf, he gave his occupation as Chemist and previous service as a Lieutenant in the RE Special Companies. 

 

The pages are poor quality.

 

Ray Service Record 1.jpg

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Terry_Reeves
Posted (edited)

mark

 

Yes, I have his post-war attestation above. Does it mention service  the Royal Fusiliers? I suspect he is the same man however.

TR

Edited by Terry_Reeves

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plattyuk
Posted (edited)

Terry,

 

no no mention in his paperwork for the RF. It is on his MIC.

I have his Gazette page for his commission, he was General List attached Royal Fusiliers then his subsequent transfer to the RE. 

 

Prior or to that the London University OTC. 

 

Mark 

Edited by plattyuk

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Terry_Reeves

Mark, then it is the right man. "O" Company war diary is available from TNA for £3-50. I will get back to you with some information about the Special Factory Section, a bit late for me now.

 

TR

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ParaJohn

Terry

My apologies if we have been here before but I am returning to this after several years and a total system crash. My father, L/Cpl 128860 Joseph (Jim) Lines MM (1889-1972), served with ['F'?] 4 Spec Coy RE and was disabled in late 1917. Have we corresponded please - you are not in my address book but it may have been through this forum?

Regards

John (Lines)

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Terry_Reeves
10 hours ago, ParaJohn said:

Terry

My apologies if we have been here before but I am returning to this after several years and a total system crash. My father, L/Cpl 128860 Joseph (Jim) Lines MM (1889-1972), served with ['F'?] 4 Spec Coy RE and was disabled in late 1917. Have we corresponded please - you are not in my address book but it may have been through this forum?

Regards

John (Lines)

John

 

We have not corresponded, but you did send me some information about Joseph Lines. Is there anything I can do to help?

 

TR

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Terry_Reeves
13 hours ago, Terry_Reeves said:

Mark, then it is the right man. "O" Company war diary is available from TNA for £3-50. I will get back to you with some information about the Special Factory Section, a bit late for me now.

 

TR

Mark

 

Send me a PM with your email address and I will send you some material on the Special Factory Section.

 

TR

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ParaJohn
1 hour ago, Terry_Reeves said:

John

 

We have not corresponded, but you did send me some information about Joseph Lines. Is there anything I can do to help?

 

TR

Thank you for the prompt response Terry. I am belatedly trying to piece together where and how my father received the injury that led to his discharge. I have his MM which indicates "4 Spec Coy R.E". I have the War Diary for "F Spec Coy" at St Idesbalde on 17 Jul 1917 which mentions the authority for his MM was dated 10 Jun 1917. I have a photograph which my father endorsed with "16 Oct 1917 France". He arrived back in the UK on 28 Jan 1918 and was discharged "Unfit for Duty" on 18 Apr 1918.  I have no information about the circumstances of the MM award and have no idea what he was doing or where he was doing it between 17 Jul 1917 (when I assume he was with the unit at St Idesbalde) and his arrival in the UK on 28 Jan 1918. From Australia I am totally reliant on what I can discover on the Internet - apart from the medal card, his military record did not survive and there seems to be no pension record. Given your formidable knowledge of the subject can you suggest please (a) the chances of finding further information and (b) where I should start digging by email? I really appreciate your interest and should mention that this renewal has been sparked by the theme for the December 2018 edition of 'Suffolk Roots' which calls for articles on the aftermath of WW1. I know how my father handled it but not how he received his crippling injuries. He never talked about the war although he did mention the effort involved in moving a 'Stokes Mortar' I recall. I have ordered 'Chemical Soldiers' today but it will not arrive in Oz until mid-June and I do not know how much help the book will be.

Regards

John

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Terry_Reeves
Posted (edited)

John

 

The promulgation of the award appears in the routine orders of the Canadian Corps on 13 July 1917 (A & Q Diary) WO95/1055/6. This is  available to download from the National Archives.  Although it not give any details it does confirm he was actually with F Special Company.

 

I will have a look at F Company diary and see if anything more can be be deduced.

 

TR

IMG_5952.jpg

Edited by Terry_Reeves

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ParaJohn

Many thanks Terry. I do not know how I missed that reference but it is further confirmation for which I am grateful. If you can find anything in the F Coy diary covering the latter half of 1917 I would be most interested. Did I send you photographs as I have several (mostly without annotation and therefore less informative) if you want copies.

Regards

John

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Terry_Reeves

John

 

Many thanks for the offer of photographs, I would be interested to see them. I will send you my email address>

 

TR

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leo mcguire
On 25/05/2018 at 14:37, brianmorris547 said:

Leo

Please see the above casualty list posted by GWF 1967 which in post 894 purports to show, if I read it correctly, that the last name on it is 130154 Anthony Mcguire. In January this year I sent Terry the names of the Special Brigade men on this list and I did not find A Mcguire. The last name on the list I read as 130434 Pnr Noble A - RE Depot Coy Special - Incised wound R Hand.

This is confirmed by the Service Record of 130434 Austin George Noble of the RE Experimental who suffered an injury to the index finger of his right hand in December 1916 and was treated in No 10 General Hospital (in his words).

Brian

EDIT: I checked FMP with "Engineers" in the keyword box and 130154 in the Soldier number. It coes back with a hit but just shows a question mark, which means that the document has a name which is obscured or unreadable. I will check it when next at the library unless another Forum Member can confirm that it relates to A Mcguire.

EDIT 2: I checked 130154 on FMP today and it came back with the Casualty List HA 5981 as above, but the number is not 130154 it is definitely 130434 which is A Noble. The original is in the Service or Pension record of 11588 William Ford, South Staffs, according to FMP. A FMP check on 130434 comes back with a Hospital Admission for A Noble and on the same page are three other men of the Special Brigade. It is MH 106/1444 and the names are:

130434 Noble A - 5 Bn SB - Age 20 - ICT L Foot - Discharged to Duty 04/05/1916.

128297 Knight J A - 3 Bn SB (late R Fus) - Age 22 - Flu - D to D 19/04/1916.

128939 Pavinder ? J W - 1 Bn SB (late 13 Lincs) - age 40 - Tonsilitis - D to D 19/04/1916. (Can not find this man in the Rolls and there was no 13 Bn Lincs).

129430 Bowler C J - 5 Bn SB (late 3 Beds) - Age 19 - Gastritis - D to D 09/05/1916.

Brian

EDIT 3: 128938 is John William Parrinder later 565778 Labour Corps.

Brian

Thanks Brian for all your work. I guess I just keep looking.

Leo

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brianmorris547

I'm afraid so, Leo. I have flagged up 130154 A McGuire on my RE index so if I find him I will let you know.

Brian

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