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Terry_Reeves

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Terry,

This is great, many thanks.  After my initial post, I joined Ancestry (for the free trial), so I found some more details about his military career from that site, which is what I presume you are able to download from the National Archives?  

 

Just a quick question, did individuals volunteer into The Special Brigade? or was it due to their civilian experiences and skills that they joined?

 

Interestingly, his Boer War Diaries (which make for fascinating reading), including letters home to my future Great Grandmother, complaining about food and asking for spare socks are all typed up, with notes.  His WW1 diaries/letters aren't and are very difficult to read, I will try and scan them sometime in the future as it would be terrible to loose them after all this time.


Again, thanks for your efforts.

Paul

 

 

 

 

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Paul

 

The first four companies, formed in 1915, were all volunteers. A circular was sent to universities and colleges as for men with experience in chemistry to enlist. When the organisation was expanded into a brigade size formation in January 1916, the men were all conscripts and/or were transferred from a variety of regiments and corps across the army, principally from the infantry with a large contingent also coming from the Royal Artillery. By then, there was no requirement for ant specialist experience, indeed, not all men in the 1915 volunteer batch had any training in chemistry.

 

TR

Edited by Terry_Reeves
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  • 1 month later...

I have just come across Corporal James Wilbert Bardsley (born 20 Oct 1893, Salford, Lancs) whose burnt records are on Ancestry.  They are in poor condition and difficult to read but I can make out that he was an analytical chemist when he attested at Manchester in November 1914 and joined the Royal Fusiliers.  On 24.9.1915 he joined No. 3 Special Brig Royal Engineers having transferred from Perham Down.  In Sept 1916 he was discharging gas from cylinders in the tren/tun (illegible) at Wulverghem and felt ill.  Two days later he developed a rash which was suspicious of Scarlet Fever.  He was isolated 5 weeks and was sent to Birmingham on 3.11.1916.  In Feb 1917 the Clayton Aniline Co. Ltd (through the Ministry of Munitions) asked for the services of 113585 Cpl J Bradley but it looks as though he elected to be transferred to the Army Reserve.  On Aug 4th 1917 Cpl Bardsley reported he was 'subject to occasional disability as a result of gas poisoning, but have up to the present been able to follow my employment regularly, with effort.'  He married on 18 Dec 1918 and died in Southampton in December 1982.

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Lesley

 

Thanks for your contribution.  Corporal Bardsley would have originally served with 186, 187,188 or 189 company and would have been present at Loos for the first British gas attack. It's interesting to see that by electing to transfer the Class W of the Army Reserve he lost his army pay and the additional element for men serving with the Special Companies. I wonder what  what his civilian pay was, possibly it was more than his service pay.  As a Class W reservist he was still technically under military control and could have been recalled to the colours at any time.

 

TR

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PioneerJONES, DAVID

Service Number 159329

Died 21/08/1916

Aged 22

5th Bn. Special Bde. 
Royal Engineers

Son of William and Mary Ann Jones, of "Pantycelyn", Tycroes, Pantyffynnon, Carmarthenshire.

 

I'd be most grateful for any further information on the above.  He was the second captain of Tycroes RFC.  We've only recently learned of his death in WW1.  Our first capain was also killed in WW 1 and we are looking for information for a club memorial.

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Coincidentally I photographed his grave for a relative of his last year (while visiting the grave of my own great-great-uncle), the photo can be found in my blog post on the trip https://halfmuffled.wordpress.com/2016/08/10/centenary-trip-continued/ (just search for Jones).  I can try and put you in touch with the family if you'd like?

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9 hours ago, Elfed said:

PioneerJONES, DAVID

Service Number 159329

Died 21/08/1916

Aged 22

5th Bn. Special Bde. 
Royal Engineers

Son of William and Mary Ann Jones, of "Pantycelyn", Tycroes, Pantyffynnon, Carmarthenshire.

 

I'd be most grateful for any further information on the above.  He was the second captain of Tycroes RFC.  We've only recently learned of his death in WW1.  Our first capain was also killed in WW 1 and we are looking for information for a club memorial.

Elfed

 

David Jones enlisted at Bangor, almost certainly in April 1916 and he  died of wounds received.  In August 1916, 5th Battalion were in action on the Somme and although it is not possible to be exact about the date of his fatal wound, it can be narrowed down to two operations, both of which were in support of infantry attacks in the area of High Wood.  

 

The first took place on the 18th August when a series of smoke barrages were fired from No 3 Company's 4 inch Stokes Mortars in the area of Wood Lane and the eastern corner of High Wood.  The sub-sections involved were 38,39,43 and 44. The Casualties for this operation were:

 

43 and 44 sub-sections - 2 other ranks wounded, 11 missing

 

39 and 39 sub-sections - 2 Killed and 8 wounded.

 

The second operation was on the 21 August which involved 17, 21 and 27 sub-sections.  This  was another smoke barrage in the High Wood sector and two distraction smoke barrages on the Moquet Farm and Delville Wood areas. The casualties were:

 

5 other ranks killed 

1 died of wounds

35 wounded.

 

It is possible that Pioneer Jones was in one of these section and his fatal wound was caused by shell fire, the standard German response to such barrages.

 

TR

 

 

 

Edited by Terry_Reeves
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  • 2 weeks later...

Some more from 9 Royal Scots... I think:

John Laing Harley, RE No 3 Special Coy Pioneer

Archibald Matheson Douglas, RE Special Coy Cpl July 1915

James Templeton, RE Special Brigade July 1915

William Wilson, RE Special Brigade Cpl 1915

Eric Helden Forster, RE Special Brigade February 1918

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1 hour ago, Neill Gilhooley said:

Some more from 9 Royal Scots... I think:

John Laing Harley, RE No 3 Special Coy Pioneer

Archibald Matheson Douglas, RE Special Coy Cpl July 1915

James Templeton, RE Special Brigade July 1915

William Wilson, RE Special Brigade Cpl 1915

Eric Helden Forster, RE Special Brigade February 1918

Thanks Neil.

 

For you information  Eric Forster orginally enlisted in the Gordon Highlanders on 7 October 1914.  He was commissioned as a 2Lt RE in 1918 after attending No 5 Cadet Battalion, Trinity College Cambridge. He served with B Special Company.

 

TR

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  • 2 weeks later...

Terry,

 

I was wondering if you had any further information on the following man. Where he possibly served? Battalion? What kind of work he would be doing?

 

Arthur Flett

enlisted 31/3/16

Royal engineers Special Brigade Gas Section

Pioneer

155388

wounded around 21/4/1917

Discharged gun shot wounds 2/4/18

 

Arthur Flett joined the Masonic Lodge St Bryde 579 in Uddingston on the closest meeting to the Armistice on 20th November 1918. Living in mount Pleasant, Uddingston he was 28 and employed as a Chemist.  

 

The Hamilton Advertiser dated 21/4/17 reads. "Mr and Mrs A Flett, have received information that their son, Arthur Flett, who is in the Gas section as a Chemist, has been wounded while in the trenches at the front."

 

Any help or scrap of information would be excellent

 

 

Regards

 

Stuart

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  • 4 weeks later...

Hi All,

 

There are a few items for sale on Ebay, which directly relate to the Special Brigade - please note, I've have no connections whatsoever with any of them , but they may be of interest to someone on this forum.

 

There's a postcard for sale which was written by Pioneer E Crook  66366 :

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/04-Aug-1916-WW1-Postcard-Soldier-Pioneer-Crook-Royal-Engineers-Special-Brigade/382270943381?hash=item59011fb095:g:AM8AAOSw5cNYkfOM

 

There are some medals that were awarded to Pioneer: F. Robinson 105374   for sale :

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Royal-Engineers-Special-Brigade-Gas-Unit-on-the-Western-Front/172844537207?hash=item283e565577:g:mNQAAOSwhIFZpp6z

 

Finally, the third advert is as follows :

 

WW1 Memorial Plaque Henry John Milner 1st Bn Special Brigade R.Engineers

 

1st Bn Special Brigade R.Engineers Died: 27 June 1916 Age 29

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WW1-Memorial-Plaque-Henry-John-Milner-1st-Bn-Special-Brigade-R-Engineers/372074735725?hash=item56a161e86d:g:iqEAAOSwRFdZuUCx

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Great photo. Which is him ?

 

Forces War Records have a hospital admission for him- soar throat! But it tells us that on 23/8/18 he was a 20 year old 2nd Lt in the RGA ( A Siege Battery) based at Catterick. He had 3yrs 9 months service at that date, ie joined up underage (as you said) Dec 1914 or Jan 1915.

Edited by charlie962
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To Keith C,

 

Re Pioneer Wiliiam Pearson Green & Gunner Harry Green.

 

I have just come across your post on here from Feb 2015. Not sure if you will pick this up or not, unable to message you directly.

I have some info about your Great Uncle William Pearson Green & your Grandad Harry Green from when they lived in Metheringham. I live locally to Metheringham and have been trying to research them.

Perhaps you could drop me an email or message and I can get in touch and pass on the info I have about them just prior to the Great War. Would also be very interested to find out more about them both and any info you have on them. My email is ccpw.5040 (-at-) gmail.com

 

Thanks Chris

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Dear Terry,

My Grandad served in the Royal Engineers during WW1 His name was George Frank Myerscough, born 12.08.1896, died 03.04.1983. He was born, brought up, and always lived in St Helens Lancashire.

He was Private 335286, and received the Victory and British medals (Roll: RE 101B146, Page 32906)

He is listed in the St Helens Absent Voters list for 1919 as 335286 Special Bde, R.E. at his home of 90 Harris Street.

Can you add anything else to my knowledge of him - e.g., when he joined up, where he served, whether he was working with poison gas , etc, etc.

I would very much appreciate your help,

Yours, M

 

 

Edited by margm
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2 hours ago, margm said:

Dear Terry,

My Grandad served in the Royal Engineers during WW1 His name was George Frank Myerscough, born 12.08.1896, died 03.04.1983. He was born, brought up, and always lived in St Helens Lancashire.

He was Private 335286, and received the Victory and British medals (Roll: RE 101B146, Page 32906)

He is listed in the St Helens Absent Voters list for 1919 as 335286 Special Bde, R.E. at his home of 90 Harris Street.

Can you add anything else to my knowledge of him - e.g., when he joined up, where he served, whether he was working with poison gas , etc, etc.

I would very much appreciate your help,

Yours, M

 

 

 

     Apart from anything a look at the service records may say, St. Helens is a great clue- as to why he was in a Special Brigade. With the first use of gas and the British response, the Army looked for men with experience of handling  hazardous materials.  I would take an educated guess that he was working before the war  in one of the numerous chemical works in St. Helens.  If so, family memories may be extant with knowledge of which one. But he was selected for a reason- and existing experience of working with dangerous chemicals  is the likeliest.

   This was a popular old book about the old St. Helens:

 

 

Industrial Town: Self Portrait of St.Helens in the 1920's

Forman, Charles

 

       I seem to remeber that Forman commented that it was hard to find people who had worked in the chemical industry of St Helens in the 1920s as they were all dead from the effects. Good to see your Graddad got to 87 or close to it.

Edited by Guest
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Thank you for the swift response, but I have to put you right. My grandad worked for Pilkington's Glass - joined them in 1911, and they gave him a 25 year service commendation, counting in his time in the army as calculable service. By the 1939 Register, he was a clerk of works at Pilks - on railway traffic. SO,  - the Special Brigade has me confused. I guess he would have NO specialised knowledge of chemicals/hazardous materials. And he was a very shy gentle man, who I can't see putting himself up for challenging experiences!

Any other thoughts?.....

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On 23/11/2017 at 22:44, margm said:

Thank you for the swift response, but I have to put you right. My grandad worked for Pilkington's Glass - joined them in 1911, and they gave him a 25 year service commendation, counting in his time in the army as calculable service. By the 1939 Register, he was a clerk of works at Pilks - on railway traffic. SO,  - the Special Brigade has me confused. I guess he would have NO specialised knowledge of chemicals/hazardous materials. And he was a very shy gentle man, who I can't see putting himself up for challenging experiences!

Any other thoughts?.....

 

     That's OK-  Pilkingtons is probably the reason. It is not just men who physically handled  chemcials but anyone with knowledge of  any form of chemical works-  storemen, etc.  That is, those who might already have sensible knowledge of working near the stuff and the precautions to take.  Pilkingtons is -obviously- likely for St Helens  but before the modern (and safer) plate glass  processes, glass-making was quite a dirty and hazardous business. 

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On 12/11/2017 at 18:28, RickyDal said:

Hi Terry,

I am researching my late father Mark Calrow Dalgleish b Dec 1898. He initially signed up underage with the 14th btn,  London Scottish in 1915 and later transferred to the RE specials as a cpl.  I enclose a photo of him and an unknown comrade dated 1915.  His original number with the London Scottish was 4016 and subsequently 106472 with the specials.  He later transferred to the Royal Garrison Artillery as a 2nd Lt.  He would not talk about his experiances of the war to myself and two elder brothers other than to remark on the pieces of shrapnel that worked their way from his back to finally emerge from his fingers.  He told us that he had been spotted by the Germans laying gas bombs in no-mans land and they had launched a shrapnel bomb at him.  He kept an eggcup in the house that was half full of pieces of shrapnell.  Apparently he was sent back from the lines to have a week off before being returned to active duty.

Thank you Terry, any information you have on him would be of great interest.

 

Dad at war B&W.jpg

Mark C Dalgleish war record ww1.jpg

Ricky

 

Sorry about the delay in replying but I was abroad when you posted.

 

He was one of the original special company men joining them from from 14 London Regiment in June/July 1915. He would have been posted to "M" Depot Coy at Chatham before proceeding to France. He would have served in either 186, 187, 188 or 189 Special Companies at the Battle of Loos in September 1915, the first British gas attack against the Germans. He would have changed companies again in Jan/Feb 1916 when the Special Brigade came into being.

 

Given that he was commissioned into the RGA, his OR's service papers are likely to be in his officers personal file at the National Archives. These are not on-line so a trip TNA will be necessary. The file number you require is WO339/104549.

 

TR

 

 

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3 hours ago, margm said:

Dear Terry,

My Grandad served in the Royal Engineers during WW1 His name was George Frank Myerscough, born 12.08.1896, died 03.04.1983. He was born, brought up, and always lived in St Helens Lancashire.

He was Private 335286, and received the Victory and British medals (Roll: RE 101B146, Page 32906)

He is listed in the St Helens Absent Voters list for 1919 as 335286 Special Bde, R.E. at his home of 90 Harris Street.

Can you add anything else to my knowledge of him - e.g., when he joined up, where he served, whether he was working with poison gas , etc, etc.

I would very much appreciate your help,

Yours, M

 

 

M

 

I can't tell you much about him at all I'm afraid other that his number indicates he joined between May and July 1918. Because of his birth date I do wonder if he was a "starred" man, that is his occupation meant deferred service because of the importance of his job to the war effort. He would have been involved with the gas service however.

 

I would add that the majority of men in the SB, from 1916 onwards, did not have any special qualifications. 

 

TR

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On 09/11/2017 at 12:50, Andy Heaton said:

Hi All,

 

There are a few items for sale on Ebay, which directly relate to the Special Brigade - please note, I've have no connections whatsoever with any of them , but they may be of interest to someone on this forum.

 

There's a postcard for sale which was written by Pioneer E Crook  66366 :

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/04-Aug-1916-WW1-Postcard-Soldier-Pioneer-Crook-Royal-Engineers-Special-Brigade/382270943381?hash=item59011fb095:g:AM8AAOSw5cNYkfOM

 

There are some medals that were awarded to Pioneer: F. Robinson 105374   for sale :

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Royal-Engineers-Special-Brigade-Gas-Unit-on-the-Western-Front/172844537207?hash=item283e565577:g:mNQAAOSwhIFZpp6z

 

Finally, the third advert is as follows :

 

WW1 Memorial Plaque Henry John Milner 1st Bn Special Brigade R.Engineers

 

1st Bn Special Brigade R.Engineers Died: 27 June 1916 Age 29

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WW1-Memorial-Plaque-Henry-John-Milner-1st-Bn-Special-Brigade-R-Engineers/372074735725?hash=item56a161e86d:g:iqEAAOSwRFdZuUCx

Andy 

 

Thanks for posting. The pair to Robinson is a bit suspect insofar that the seller has not provided any evidence that he served with the SB. He appears to have worked on the assumption that because he was a pioneer he must have been a Special. I will contact him and see what he has to say.

 

TR

Edited by Terry_Reeves
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On 23/11/2017 at 14:08, Terry_Reeves said:

M

 

I can't tell you much about him at all I'm afraid other that his number indicates he joined between May and July 1918. Because of his birth date I do wonder if he was a "starred" man, that is his occupation meant deferred service because of the importance of his job to the war effort. He would have been involved with the gas service however.

 

I would add that the majority of men in the SB, from 1916 onwards, did not have any special qualifications. 

 

TR

Terry, 

Grateful thanks for your very helpful knowledge. Can you give me any suggestion as to how you know from his number that he only joined between May and July 1918? The numbers were entirely sequential, and not geographic? I had wondered if he was in a 'reserved occupation' myself, but had no way of knowing. With hindsight, we know the war was so soon to end, and to a degree, it was known even then that the tide was turning. So why join up so late, in Summer 1918?

NB, thanks to Guest for the book recommendation. I shall buy it.

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16 minutes ago, margm said:

Terry, 

Grateful thanks for your very helpful knowledge. Can you give me any suggestion as to how you know from his number that he only joined between May and July 1918? The numbers were entirely sequential, and not geographic? I had wondered if he was in a 'reserved occupation' myself, but had no way of knowing. With hindsight, we know the war was so soon to end, and to a degree, it was known even then that the tide was turning. So why join up so late, in Summer 1918?

NB, thanks to Voltaire 60 for the book recommendation. I shall buy it.

 

Numbering is quite complex. In  your relative's case his year of birth is a clue.  Depending on his actual date of birth he was old enough to volunteer in 1915, and also to be conscripted in 1916. It was just a matter of comparing his number with men whose service records survive who had a similar number.  It is quite possible, in fact likely, that he attested earlier in the war but was only called up in 1918 when he was given his number, which is one that was issued in 1918. Deferred service was not that unusual and in 1918 there was a shortage of manpower in the army, so some men in reserved occupations had this "protection" removed and were called for service.

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