Royal Engineers Special Brigade

[Terry_Reeves]

Thanks Terry

Shame about the war diary but thanks for looking. I've now got his service records and will try and decipher them.

Steve

Steve

He joined 186 company in 1915 and would have taken part in the first British gas attack at Loos.

TR

[risca_boy]

Thanks Terry

[bob lembke]

I have a couple of questions, uttered especially with our Pal

Terry Reeves in mind, but certainly open to anyone with an opinion.

As some may know, My father, after serving at Gallipoli with the

Turks, volunteered to join the German Flammenwerfer unit, and

did that service till the end of the war. There were a few parallels

between his experience and that of the father of Marjorie Gibbs,

and I have PMed her about that.

1. I have studied the Special Brigade a bit, especially trying to

understand the history and activity of Z Company. It is quite clear

to me that Foulkes (CO of Special Brigade) actively sabotaged the

Flammenwerfer programme, and then, in concert with Fries, his Yankee

counterpart, wrote a lot of rubbish about the FW, especially about

the German programme, such writing going on for about 15 years after

the end of the war. Is that apparent to our British Pals?

2. Foulkes and Fries did a number of things in apparent concert.

Are there records of them actually meeting? Or is simply a case of

"great minds think alike"? Incidentally, the Yanks did get some

"hands on" Flammenwerfer training from the French, with light FWs.

I have been away from my WW I studies for about three years,

completing a major project, but I am now trying to slide back into

the harness, so to speak. Hopefully finish a book or two. The British

FW experience in WW I is puzzling.

[TEW]

I asked about Special Brigade diaries back in Feb. A late reply to that post said;

The RE Museum library Gillingham lists the following war diaries:

1 Battalion Special Brigade ( 186 Company and Special Battalion ) ( see also HQ Special Company 1st Army ) Aug 1915 to Jun 1915(?) S

2 Battalion Special Brigade ( 187 Company ) ( see also HQ Special Company 4th Army ) 04 Aug 1915 to 14 Sep 1916 S

3 Battalion Special Brigade ( 188 Company ) ( see also HQ Special Company 2nd Army ) 17 Jan 1916 to Sep 1916 S

4 Battalion Special Brigade ( 189 Company ) 17 Jan 1916 to ? S

Special Works Park 22 Mar 1916 to 16 Dec 1917 S

Special Section ( Yatesbury ) 05 Jul 1916 to ? S

Special Section Special Brigade 02 May 1916 to 25 Jun 1916 S

Reserve Company Special Brigade 01 Jul 1916 to ?

HQ Special Companys 1st Army 06 Aug 1915 to 08 Aug 1917 S

the "S" means Summary. No idea what level of detail is provided in them.

Cheers, Simon

Are these summaries of value?

TEW

[Mark Hone]

I asked this question in the early days ( years!) of this thread but wonder if anyone can give a definitive answer: is it possible to identify the exact point in the British lines from which C Section, 1st Company, 5th Special Brigade attempted to advance on 1st July 1916?

[sleedham]

My grandfather Robert Ashley Baldry was with the Special Brigade. He was studying chemistry at Cambridge and signed up when the call came out for chemists in 1915. On his medal index card he is written up as B A Baldry (perhaps the B was for 'Bob' or 'Balders' as he was sometimes known, although his family knew him as Ashley) and someone has completed the B as 'Baldry' so on the medal roll it says Baldry A Baldry. He was born 11 July 1895 and died 29 July 1952. His early death may partly be attributed to his exposure to gas. Along with the usual medals he was also awarded the Belgian Croix de Guerre but we don't know why and he never talked about it (or gave conflicting jokey accounts). I would love to know if he fought at the Somme, but he never talked about the war and I guess we will never know. Anyway, here us his details Terry for your database:

 

Robert Ashley Baldry 1895-1952

Corporal Royal Engineers Special Brigade (apparently because he was at Cambridge they offered him Officer status but he refused)

Theatre of War first served in: (1) France

Date of entry therein: 13-7-15

Regimental No 106062

 

His service records were among those destroyed but I would dearly love to know more about where he fought, as would the rest of my family and why he was awarded the Belgian Croix de Guerre.

[KevinBattle]

Hi and welcome!

I can understand why you put your request here, but it might be better to start a separate topic in Soldiers sub forum, giving Name, Number and referencing R E Special Brigade where it may receive more attention and response rather than as Post#682 of a long running and wide ranging topic.

That's not to say the RE experts won't pick up on your post here, but it may help you keep the info you require all in one place not dotted in amongst other RE Special Brigade answers.

Whichever way, I hope we are able to get you some useful info!

[sleedham]

Thanks Kevin, as you see I'm new to this!

[Terry_Reeves]

Sleedham

 

Thanks for your post.  Cpl Baldry was one of the original members of the Special companies. he would have enlisted  In late June of the first week of July 1915. He disembarked in France on 13.7 1915 and would have  seen his first action a Loos in September , 1915 with either 186, 187, 188 or 189 Companies.  In February 1916  these  units  formed the basis for the Special Brigade which was formed into alphabetically ordered companies, apart from Special Mortar companies which numerically ordered.  There is much in this thread about these units if you scroll through it.

 

The SB served on all parts of the front, however it is not possible to pinpoint exactly where he was serving without knowing his company.

 

I would try and avoid a second post in soldiers, as this only causes confusion.

 

 

TR

 

[Gerald Tidswell]

Can anybody help with

Pioneer 130544 Andrew Keane Royal Engineers 4^th Special Brigade

I know he was Pte. 11133 Andrew Keane, 4^th battalion Lancashire Fusiliers when he first enlisted in 1914. Even struggling to find anything on the 4th Sprecial Brigade.

Thanks in advance

Gerald Tidswell

Friends of Salford Cemeteries Trust

[charlie962]

SDGW says he was 4th Bn, Special Brigade. CWGC shows another buried alongside and another from 4th Bn died same day. Several more the next day. Not neccesarily same company.

[Gerald Tidswell]

Thanks Charlie 962...thats more than I've found in a month

[charlie962]

This 'in memoriam' is in the Manchester Evening News 27.6.1918   Useful family links ?

 

   

 

Edit  This is John Tapley 438487 RE -not a SB- whose wife was Francis Oates.  Andrew Keane married Jane Oates Q1 1915. He (AK) was born Pendleton, Salford 1891.  But maybe you knew this?

[Terry_Reeves]

On 28 June 2016 at 13:49, Terry_Reeves said:

 

Gerald

 

Pioneer Keane joined 4th battalion on or around 27 January, 1916 on its formation.  The battalion consisted of 4 companies,  N,O,P and Q. which were cylinder companies

 dispensing phosgene gas.  When he was killed the battalion was engaged in softening up operations  in preparation for the Somme offensive. The battalion war diary entry for the 26th June says only this "Wind varied considerably all day both in direction and velocity and there wa sno indication of suitable wind at any time, day or night"

 

There is no mention of any casualties on that day, however there were casualties on the 27th and 28th.

 

TR

[Gerald Tidswell]

Many thanks Terry, it's starting to come together now.

[Gerald Tidswell]

Charlie962: thats great

this is strange that is not showing up on 'findmypass'...wonder if they are using 'lunch time ' editons?

Will help us with our project

 

http://www.spanglefish.com/ fourcemeteriesandawar

 

 

[charlie962]

Gerald  (perhaps I shouldn't be cluttering up this Special Brigade thread ? )

Using Salford and birthdate in an FMP search I come up with the following hits. The 1935 marriage might be his son?

                                 

 

Charlie962

[charlie962]

and I suspect that these are for his son (except 1939 register that I've not got access to). Son Andrew born 1.8.15 Chorlton, died Q2 1992 Blackpool/Fylde

    

       

[Gerald Tidswell]

Cheers Charlie,

I should have added I've found this past...it was his army service I could not find

Thanks for your help

Gerald (tidtracer@blueyonder.co.uk)

[Jez]

Hi Terry

I have recently been researching some family history. My grandfather was a Corporal Chemist, originally in 186 Special Company

and then assigned to 'L' Special Company in 1916. He was Corporal William English, 106272. He took part in the Battle of Loos on 25th September 1915 and was affected by gas poisoning and evacuated to the 6th London Field Ambulance. He survived and was a gas instructor for the remainder of WW1.  I believe he was drafted in as a young man because he had worked at a chemical works in London, where his father was the manager, as a Stores Assistant.  

Do you have any information on William English? 

Thanks

Jez

[Gerald Tidswell]

Sorry Jez, I am only tracing the one chap.

Good luck with your search

Gerald

[Terry_Reeves]

Jez

 

I can't help specifically, but he did have previous service  with the Essex Regiment as a private soldier with the number 2333 and was almost certainly transferred because of his

civilian employment.  He would have joined the RE in July , 1915 and then sent with a draft to the Special Brigade Depot at Helfaut, in France before being posted to 186 Company.

 

In February 1916 the four original companies were used as the nucleus for the  battalions and companies of the newly raised Special Brigade. In this case L Company was part of 3rd Battalion. Their war diaries can be found on line from the National Archives and downloaded for a small fee here:

 

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_q=3+Battalion+AND+Royal+Engineers

 

In 1917 there was a further reorganisation and the individual companies started to keep their own war diaries. L Company diaries are here:

 

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_q=L+Special+Company

 

If you have any queries, please ask.

 

TR

 

 

[Jez]

Many thanks for your reply Terry

The Essex Regiment makes sense as his family home in 1914 was in Wanstead. Thanks for the other information on the Special Brigade.  I will look into obtaining the war diaries.

 

Regards

Jez

[Jez]

On 7 June 2009 at 22:23, Andy Heaton said:

I've some Special Brigade (I think) photos - my Grandfather is on most of them.

I'd be interested to know anything abut this picture

I hope that this posting works . . .

Note the officer in the kilt in the centre - someone must be able to identify him. UPDATE This officer has now been identified as

OD Winterbottom of Horton House, Northampton.

Served in the ranks London Scottish

T 2/Lt Cameron Highlanders

A/ Lt RE 17.1.16

A/ Capt 3.10.16

2 ic No 3 Company

T/ Capt 18.9.17 and OC No 4 Special Company

Mentioned in Depatches, 1914

Indefinite sick leave 30.1.1918

(Thank you to Terry Reeves for that information)

This group has been identified (with Thanks to Simon Jones) as 21st Section, 188 Company

Hi Andy

Are you still following this site?

This photo was taken on 15th September, 1915, at Verquin, between Bethune and Noeux les Mines. This was 10 days before the Battle of Loos.

My grandfather, William English, annotated his copy of this photo. He is in the back row far left (sideways stance). He suffered gas injury on the first day of the Battle of Loos but went on to live to 95!

I have always thought he was in 186 Company. 

[charlie962]

Just to note that a search on FMP with name blank but optional keyword "special brigade" came up with over 700 hits with not many men appearing twice. includes MICs, Service papers, casualty lists etc