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Terry_Reeves

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  • 2 weeks later...

Terry

As part of long term research into RWF men I have been looking at the RE range 130561 to 130595 The outer limits might be fuzzy but I have settled on these at the moment.

Service/Pension records exist for the majority and they are men initially with 3rd 5th RWF (about 13 men) and 3rd 7th RWF (about 23 men) at Park Hall Camp, Oswestry who requested/volunteered transfer to RE and were subsequently formally discharged in order to do so (20 3 1916 for 3rd 5th and 25 3 1916 for 3rd 7th).

From what I see most are shown as going to France early May 1916 and to No 4 Bn Special Bde but the occasional record also shows posted Depot, Special bde, BEF on that 'transfer' date in March.

What I find intriguing is that the whole lot show a RWF number on their medal cards. My understanding of the Medals is that they showed the number/unit which the man had when he first went to theatre. Insofar as this range is concerned they had been discharged from RWF in the UK. Was 'Depot, Special Bde' located in France maybe and they had already gone to it whilst the paperwork was being formalised? Have you come across this with transfer blocks from other Regiments (or even this one)?

Hywyn

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Hywyn

The number group you have mentioned was one several groups for infantry transfers to the SB. The Brigade officially came into being on 17th January 1916 but took several months to be brought up strength. There were also two groups of numbers for RA transfers. Men were also transferred from the RAMC and various other corps as well.

There were two Depots for SB men; Helfaut in France and the Home Depot at Withnoe, near Devonport. The latter was for the men you have mentioned which also received men returning from the BEF and returning to France men who had been sent home wounded or sick. The Helfaut Depot would have taken the men being transferred from units in France as well as those being sent from Withnoe.

TR

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Thanks Terry

My impression is that they went to the UK one from Parkhall. Maybe it's an anomaly in that Medal 'rule' or, more likely, I have completely misunderstood it.

Hywyn

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Hywyn

Mass transfers to the SB were compulsory in 1916. I note that these men were from the TF and they too were subject to this type of transfer. T, here is an AO/ACI for this but I can't find it at the moment.

With regard to numbers, many of these men were transferred straight from their depots in the UK and all their original numbers, were recorded on the MIC's irrespective of their regiment or corps.

TR

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  • 1 month later...

Hi Terry, Graham and Jeremy

My great uncle Thomas Percy Bliss b. 1897 was also in m company. I too have the "m special coy strafes" poster. I know Tom was studying chemistry probably at Edinburgh University when he signed up. He survived the war and trained as a doctor afterwards. He served in the army medical corps in WW II and was in the second cohort of doctors into Belsen where he treated ( and caught) the people infected with typhus. I have no further info on him at present but have ordered Jeremy's book to see what else I can find out. Would love to know any other info about Uncle Tom. My Grandfather was in the flying corps but I think his mother wrote to the commanding officer to have him pulled out as he was due to take up a place in the medical school in Edinburgh. I will get a photo of my relatives and up.oad them but any other information would be wonderful.

Many Thanks Sarah

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Sarah

Thanks for your post. I can't add anything substantial I'm afraid but I believe he was conscripted in 1916 as 167284 Pioneer Percy Bliss and was later Acting 2nd Corporal. I have checked the Edinburgh University Roll of Honour which has entries for all their students but I can't find Percy in it.

TR

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Thank you for that information Terry. I'm going to speak with Tom's nieces to see if I can find out any more. I know they had letters from him sent from Belsen but not sure what they have on my he First World War.

Kind regards, Sarah

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  • 1 month later...

Over the past few years I have been compiling a roll of men who served in the RE Special Brigade and Special Companies. This formation was responsible for Britains chemical warfare effort.I am now able to identify some 2-3000 of these men but would like to hear from any forum member who has information about any individual whom they believe served in the Brigade.In particular, I would be interested in number and rank, any snippets of personal information, and in the case of those men who were killed, the location of any town or village war memorial that they may have been commemorated on. If I can help anybody with identifying men whom they believe were in the Specials I will be pleased to do so.Terry Reeves

AndrewMany thanks for taking the time and trouble to post the information on Cpl Lund. If I can help yourself or indeed any other forum member in this subject area, I will be more than happy to do so.Terry Reeves

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Hi Terry.

I have done a lot of research re my father who was in one of the special companies and suffered gas poisoning at the Battle of Loos

HAROLD GRAHAM WEBSTER 113261 Royal Engineers "special brigade"

War office request - He transferred from the Royal Warwickshire 1st Aug 1915. and promoted to Corparal

He Arrived France 7th Sept 1915 - I have been through the N.A. WW1 war diaries of the depot at HELFUT July - Oct 1915

From them I presume he must have been in 186 or 187 coy as 188 & 189 weren't formed until 15th Sept.

He told me that he was moved back from the front line and spent the rest of his time in France experimenting with gas. .Early 1916 he was promoted to Sargent.

He was transferred in iSeptember 1916 to Class w Army reserves,and returned to GB to supervise a cordite factory at the Amunition factory at Gretna in Scotland

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Maggie

Many thanks for your contribution. You are correct in thinking that he was one of the originals. He was eventually discharged as surplus to requirements.

Do you have a photograph of him?

TR

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Terry,

I am a bit late postings this, but it's just over a 100 years since the seventeen year old John William Hyde Harrison walked into a recruiting office in Wimbledon (probably at Wimbledon Theatre) and volunteered as a “Chemical Solider” on Friday the 24th Sept. 1915. Within days he was at the Chatham RE depot and on his way to France on 5th October 1915 as Corporal 120661 on 3/- a day.

120661 Cpl. J. W. H. Harrison died of wounds at 43rd CCS on 13.11.1916, a Saturday.

CWGC

=================================

HARRISON, JOHN WILLIAM HYDE

Rank:Corporal

Service No:120661

Date of Death:13/11/1916

Age:18

Regiment/Service:Royal Engineers 4th Bn. Special Bde. Grave Reference: II. J. 4. Cemetery:WARLINCOURT HALTE BRITISH CEMETERY, SAULTY

Additional Information: Son of Arthur W. Harrison, M.D., of 91, Devonshire Rd., Collier's Wood, Merton, London.

John Harrsion's name appears on three memorials, and in one “Roll of Honour” book.

1. The main Mitcham memorial, see here:

https://mitchamwarmemorial.wordpress.com/the-names/face-2-cole-l-v-to-humphrey-w/

2. The “Roll of Honour” in Christ Church, Collier's Wood (current location/status unknown)

3. The Rutlish School Memorial, now Watery Lane Merton, original buildings were in Station Road (now Rutlish Road) Merton. See here for a photo of school memorial in its original location.

http://photoarchive.merton.gov.uk/view/35621

4. The 1921 privately published book, “A record of the honoured men of Wimbledon and Merton, who fell in the Great War 1914-1918. ” page 24.

Fortunately some his service papers have survived, as have those of others with close army numbers . At first glance I thought he was in “M” company, but realised that was a mistake after learning that the UK Depot company went by the letter “M” ( “M” for mother?). The entry dated 18/11/15 shows how record keeping had not kept up with the pace with events. He was initially posted to 189th Coy and there's no B.103 entry about the later re-org. There is no mention of his company within the 4th Bn anywhere in his papers.

It's an irony that if it were not for his father's insistence on trying to locate his parting gifts to his son, a watch and pen, we'd might have been left guessing at John Harrison's fate. After official enquires were made, what turns out to be a vital clue is that John Harrison was first brought to the 97th Field Ambulance. They were located at La Herliere in Nov. 1916 and the 97th FA diary mentions a “gas attack along selected area of 30th divisional front ..” on 13/11/196. The 97th FA ADMS diary records on 12.11.1916, “we are expected to make a gas flotation this evening”. On 13.11.1916 it records : “Gas flotation referred to in app144 took place place early this morning ...”. The 97th FA had to deal with several cases of gas poisoning. The 97th FA ADMS diary shows that they were making arrangements for a proposed gas attack as early as 2nd November in terms of bearer posts , ADS, etc.

It's the 30th Divisional war diary that holds the key information about this “gas flotation” as described in order 46, dated 31st Oct. 1916, and the subsequent report after it had actually taken place on the 13th November. The divisional papers identify the Special RE company responsible as “N” company of the 4th Bn. The casualties of the Special Company are listed as image below.

The two men killed can be identified as pioneers 192541 Cecil Arthur Hunt and 192542 Thomas William Hunter, both transfers from the RFA. John Harrison was one of those wounded.

I did finally download WO95/122/1

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/4430aa229adc46ed98329c00f17de69c

I didn't really expect much, and on its own the information it contains is sketchy. Does a separate diary exist for “N” company covering November 1916?

post-1298-0-90558600-1445779485_thumb.jp

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Chris

Thanks for your contribution. A group of men with numbers beginning 120 missed the first British gas attack at Loos by a matter of a few weeks and many of their documents have survived, unlike those who joined the special companies before them.

The original special companies were expanded to a brigade size organisation of five battalions and Z company in February 1916. It was the battalion HQs who produced the war diaries at this stage, with contributions from the individual companies. This all changed in March 1917 when there was another organisational change which made the companies responsible for their own administration.

In your case N company was in 4th battalion and any diary entries for 1916 will be be found in WO95/122/1.

Hope this helps.

TR

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Terry,

wo95/122/1 is not that illuminating. I presume you have data on these two Wimbledon men:

AXTEN, PERCY ELMER

Rank:
Corporal
Service No:
113209
Date of Death:
20/06/1916
Age:
19
Regiment/Service:
Royal Engineers

2nd Bn. Special Bde.
Grave Reference:
Plot 1. Row B. Grave 2.
Cemetery:
CORBIE COMMUNAL CEMETERY EXTENSION
Additional Information:
Son of Arthur Dawson Axten and Elizabeth Axten, of 26, Trewince Road, West Wimbledon, London. Undergraduate London University. Winner of Junior and Senior Surrey County Scholarships.

His name appears in this publication:

http://www.ulrls.lon.ac.uk/resources/WARLISToptimised-OCR.pdf

His name also appears in the book I listed in the previous post, where he is said to have joined in August 1915. I found no service papers for him. MIC shows 7/9/15 as first in France. Percy Axten was clearly a brilliant scholar. Soldier's effect says died at no.5 CCS. on 20.6.16.

HONESS, CHARLES HAROLD
Rank:
Serjeant
Service No:
113222
Date of Death:
15/04/1917
Age:
38
Regiment/Service:
Royal Engineers

"G" Special Coy.
Grave Reference:
I. B. 9.
Cemetery:
MORY ABBEY MILITARY CEMETERY, MORY
Additional Information:
Son of Mr. H. Honess, of Fulham, London; husband of Annie May Honess, of 19, Prince George's Avenue, Raynes Park, Wimbledon, London.

Charles Harold Honess was a school master, married with 4 children. He is also said to have joined in 1915 in the book "Wimbledon and Merton Roll".

And another from Mitcham.

COPPARD, ROBERT JAMES

Rank:
Corporal
Service No:
147095
Date of Death:
03/08/1917
Age:
22
Regiment/Service:
Royal Engineers

"O" Special Coy.
Grave Reference:
XXII. N. 8.
Cemetery:
ETAPLES MILITARY CEMETERY
Additional Information:
Son of Frederick and Emma Frances Coppard, of 35, Percy Rd., Mitcham Junction, Surrey. Born at New Eltham, Kent.

SRR
===================================
Surrey Recruitment Registers 1908-1933 Transcription

First name(s) Robert Ja
Last name Coppard
Service number -
Age 19 Years 7 Months
Birth year 1895
Birth place Alton
Birth county Kent
Birth country England
Occupation Leather Dresser
Attestation year 1914
Attestation date 09 September 1914
Attestation place Mitcham
Unit or regiment East Surrey Regiment
Regiment East Surrey Regiment
Height 5ft 8.5in.
Weight in pounds 122
Eye colour Hazel
Complexion Ruddy
Hair colour Brown
Chest expansion inches 3
Chest size inches 36
Notes Volunteers. This recruitment register has General Service written at the top of one page, and GS written after the destination regiment for some entries on the first few pages.
County Kent
Country England
Reference 2496 / 40
Series Volunteers, 8th August 1914 to 7th September 1914
Page number 168

He was an xfer from the East Surreys, was pte 2118 , first in France 25/3/1915, could have been a 1st or 2nd Bn. draft. He's actually on the RE star roll:

1914-1915 Star
Royal Engineers
Piece 2594: Royal Engineers
Does that mean a 1915 xfer?

He died in no.56 Gen Hospital. His name appears on the memorial in All Saints (Hackbridge), New Road, Mitcham. See:

http://www.allsaintschurchhackbridge.org.uk/history/

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Terry et al,

Something I forgot yesterday. If you've not already seen it, this 60 page pdf booklet produced by the Royal Chemical Society gives the background on all those who appear on its "Pro Patria" Great War memorial and on the creation of the "Harrision Ward" in memory of Lt-Colonel Edward Harrison, controller of the Chemical Warfare Committee.

http://www.rsc.org/globalassets/08-locations-contacts/locations/library/pro-patria-booklet.pdf

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Chris

Thanks for your information. The 1914/15 star is correct. I have seen Pro Patria before and whilst Edward Harrison deserves the credit he was accorded, there were many othets who also should be remembered including Harrison's team at Millbank, the RE team at University College London and their civilian colleagues, the officers and NCOs at the Central Laboratory in France who took huge risks examining enemy munitions and also the staff at the Porton Down Experimental Station. And last but not last the Wembley Experimental Station with its work on flame throwers.

TR

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Chris

Thanks for your information. The 1914/15 star is correct. I have seen Pro Patria before and whilst Edward Harrison deserves the credit he was accorded, there were many othets who also should be remembered including Harrison's team at Millbank, the RE team at University College London and their civilian colleagues, the officers and NCOs at the Central Laboratory in France who took huge risks examining enemy munitions and also the staff at the Porton Down Experimental Station. And last but not last the Wembley Experimental Station with its work on flame throwers.

TR

Terry,

You clearly have a very detailed knowledge of this subject. I wanted to ask you about the war office notice "121/1/1 (A.G. 2b)" dated 28th May 1915.

In the literature you have read, is there any discussion as to how and when, and to who, this notice was circulated? Or for how long the notice was in circulation and in effect.

There is a fine example in the service papers of 120661 J, W. H. Harrison, I suspect the name and address details are in his own hand. I've been pondering on how it came into his possession. Would the War Office have sent copies to the "Rutlish Science School", knowing the upper age of its pupils was just 17?

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Chris

In the summer of 1915 the War Office sent copies of this letter to universities and colleges around the country. I can't comment on the particular case you mention but as well as those at university, it was also aimed at those who were about to leave college at the end f the summer term. The notice as dropped late in 1915 when it as realised that a knowledge of chemistry as not required. In Febuary 1916 the original companies were expanded into a brigade sized formation and many thousands of men were transferred in from around the army.

TR

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Chris

In the summer of 1915 the War Office sent copies of this letter to universities and colleges around the country. I can't comment on the particular case you mention but as well as those at university, it was also aimed at those who were about to leave college at the end f the summer term. The notice as dropped late in 1915 when it as realised that a knowledge of chemistry as not required. In Febuary 1916 the original companies were expanded into a brigade sized formation and many thousands of men were transferred in from around the army.

TR

So it's just possible that "Rutlish Science School" may have received some of these notices prior to the end of the Summer Term of 1915, either directly or indirectly.

I have a couple of other quesion about your own records of those who served in the RE special companies. Is there any discernable pattern to the allocated Army numbers of ORs joining in 1915? Are you able to say if you found any survivors who came from SW London? Specifcally: Wimbledon, Merton, Morden, Mitcham or Tooting?

P.S. I came across this yesterday:

http://www.stockwellwarmemorial.org/ernest-austin-hoare/

E. A. Hoare

Service no. 106556

Corporal, Royal Engineers, 186th Special Coy

Killed in action aged 18 on 21 December 1915

Son of John A. and Martha Hoare, of 12 Lansdowne Rd., Clapham, London.

Remembered at Cambrin Churchyard Extension, France

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Chris

There is no way of telling where the men came from by their number as they were recruited nationwide. The 1915 men all receive their numbers on arrival at Chaham. The men who were subject to compulsory transfer from other regiments and corps were renumbered by RE records.

Thanks for the piece on Cpl Hoare. The specials had a cylinder dump across the road from Cambrin church and cemetery incidentally.

TR

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Hi Terry

Re Harold Graham WEBSTER

Thank for confirming that he was in one of the original 4 special gas coys - is there any way I can find out which one of the 4 he was in?

He wasn't discharged till Dec 1918 - recruited to work as a section leader in a munitions factory

I have attached a photo of him in 1916

I have a photo of a group of men - Christmas 1915 at Bethune with some signatures( difficult to read) on the back:-

HG. WEBSTER

DA Clements

FJ Wall

Frank Cliffe

JE Slater

Mark Dalglish

PS Senior

E ? ownall

Regards Margaret

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P.s.

The photo was too big to attach, I Can't find a way to send a smaller version unless I e.mail it to you

P.s.

The photo was too big to attach, I Can't find a way to send a smaller version unless I e.mail it to you

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Margaret

Many thanks. I will send a personal message with my details to you and see what I can do to help from the names you have published.

TR

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