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The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Remembered Today:

EDITH CAVELL


chris basey

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REMEMBERING

EDITH CAVELL who was executed by German Firing Squad at 7am on 12th October 1915 for helping British soldiers, and others, to escape from Belgium to neutral Holland on their way back to this country to give further service to their country.

The Annual Memorial Service at her graveside at Norwich Cathedral today at 11am

(Cavell rhymes with 'travel')

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  • 1 year later...

I was today looking through a postcard album belonging to my Great Aunt, who was a nurse during the first world war and came across a post card commemerating Edith Cavell. ican scan and send it to you if you email me?

Lindsey

PS i dont know how to resize images to the correct requirments to post on this forum hence the suggestion of scanning and sending it to you direct.

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Where is this memorial. i use to live in london and missed it!!!

Lindsey

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For those who have not seen this website: http://www.edithcavell.org.uk/

Regards

Richard

post-38-1099093889.jpg

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I have a first edition of "Edith Cavell's Imitation of the Christ", I have always been curious as to it's value. Anyone have any clue?

She was a very brave woman, throughout her life and in her death.

cheers Shelley :D

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Shelly

Pardon my ignorance, but is it a book you refer to??

Lindsey

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Lindsey,

Yes, it is Edith Cavell's prayer book, she had it with her throughout her time in captivity. She wrote in the margins, etc. After her belongings were returned to the UK, it was printed, but I don't know how many copies were made.

cheers Shelley :D

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A long time ago, I posted a message on this forum (can't find the message now!) about a museum at Zeebrugge back in the mid-1960's.

There was a series of German pictures on the wall about the uncovering of Resistance workers including those who helped escaped enemy (to the Germans) soldiers.

One was quite startling- snapped at the moment of discovery.

I am sure this was Cavell but it was so long ago when I saw the pics, and no-one seemed to recall them when I posted the first message, then perhaps I am getting too old and my mind is going!!

Martin

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  • 4 weeks later...

Executing Cavell was a big propaganda setback for the Germans, but it is sometimes overlooked that they were fully entitled under international law to shoot her for what she did.

You can argue that she was acting from humanitarian motives, but she was in German held territory, actively assisting the allied war effort.

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Where is this memorial. i use to live in london and missed it!!!

Lindsey

It is across the road from the National Portrait gallery - about 5 minutes walk from Trafalger Square.

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There's another monument to Edith Cavell - this one a wee bit bigger than the one in London (by about 11000 feet...)

http://www.peakfinder.com/peakfinder.ASP?P...nt+edith+cavell

Here's another view of the mountain as seen from Cavell Lake

post-38-1101588128.jpg

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Geoff

That's probably the best of all the pictures of Mount Edith Cavell in Jasper and thanks for posting it. What a way to be commemorated!

I am told that a glacier in the USA also bears her name but, so far, my searches have not revealed its location. Can anyone help?

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... they were fully entitled under international law to shoot her for what she did.

You can argue that she was acting from humanitarian motives, but she was in German held territory, actively assisting the allied war effort.

I've often seen this. Is it generally accepted? Can anyone give 'chapter and verse'? Just curious - it doesn't affect the heroism.

Anthony

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Executing Cavell was a big propaganda setback for the Germans, but it is sometimes overlooked that they were fully entitled under international law to shoot her for what she did

Is this actually correct? I should have thought that since the German occupation of Belgium was illegal then any other law (military or otherwise) which may have condoned Edith Cavell's execution would surely be invalidated; ergo it was in fact a War Crime. Was there ever any attempt to clarify this issue post-war?

Andy.

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Executing Cavell was a big propaganda setback for the Germans, but it is sometimes overlooked that they were fully entitled under international law to shoot her for what she did

Is this actually correct? I should have thought that since the German occupation of Belgium was illegal then any other law (military or otherwise) which may have condoned Edith Cavell's execution would surely be invalidated; ergo it was in fact a War Crime. Was there ever any attempt to clarify this issue post-war?

Andy.

How was it illegal? They were at war. By this argument, when the allies entered Germany in 1944/45, they were there illegally.

I think that the outcry was because she was a woman and a nurse and because the British used it as an excuse to whip up an outrage. Anything to stoke the image of the "frightful Hun". I am not saying that they were wrong to do this, just that the point is missed.

She was a very brave woman, because she must have known the risks.

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How was it illegal?

When a belligerent nation decides to ‘colonise’ its neighbour and, to pursue that aim, allows its army to trespass into and forcibly occupy a neutral third country without provocation, then I should have thought that “illegal” is an entirely appropriate description.

Andy.

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There used to be a big monument at Uccle (Brussels) for her.

There is even a medical institute called Edith Cavell:

http://www.cavell.be/cavell/

There is also a street with her name.

I don't know what happend with the monument now, because the national TV is there now.

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How was it illegal?

When a belligerent nation decides to ‘colonise’ its neighbour and, to pursue that aim, allows its army to trespass into and forcibly occupy a neutral third country without provocation, then I should have thought that “illegal” is an entirely appropriate description.

Andy.

I think you are applying post WWII principles here.

I would have to track down the source on this one, but I think it illustrates the point. In WWII France, it was the practice of the Germans to shoot hostages whenever a German soldier was killed by the resistance. One book I read made the point that this may have caused outrage, but it was perfectly legal under international law - and no Germans were ever tried for war crimes for doing it. This seems wrong in our 21st century eyes, but was not so then.

And nobody was ever tried for war crimes when the British "pacified" Iraqi tribes in the 1920s by bombing them.

I simply do not think you can apply current ideas of morality to the past. You have to take it as it is.

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Guest Pete Wood

The invasion of Belgium was illegal. Fact.

You have obviously never heard of a lady called Louise Emily Wertheim. She was caught spying (for Germany) in Britain and, while she could - according to the law - have been executed, she was instead sent to Broadmoor for 10 years.

This case was judged just a few weeks after Nurse Cavell was shot.

This was Britain's statement about morality at the time. Fact.

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My concern is over the notion of war crimes and international law and principles were simply not the same in 1914-18 as they became after WWII and Nuremburg. For instance, one of the Nuremburg charges was "waging aggressive war", which was new.

Regarding the lady you mention, if she was criminally insane, then Broadmoor was obviously the place for her. If she was not and it was simply a way of avoiding hanging a woman, then I do not agree with it. Men and women should be equal in law.

Of course, the French shot Mata Hari!

Cavell was guilty of a capital crime under German military law.

Some interesting links:

http://womenshistory.about.com/library/prm...dithcavell1.htm

http://www.firstworldwar.com/source/cavell_deleval.htm

http://www.greatwardifferent.com/Great_War...l/Cavell_00.htm

http://collections.iwm.org.uk/server/show/ConWebDoc.935

http://www.edp24.co.uk/Content/Features/Ed...0509Cavell1.asp

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Guest Pete Wood
Regarding the lady you mention, if she was criminally insane, then Broadmoor was obviously the place for her. If she was not and it was simply a way of avoiding hanging a woman, then I do not agree with it. Men and women should be equal in law.

Remember that you said "I simply do not think you can apply current ideas of morality to the past."

Wertheim was originally sent to Aylesbury prison. She was transferred to Broadmoor, some three years later, when she was later diagnosed as insane.

Wertheim was guilty of a charge, under British law, that carried a sentence of death by execution. But Britain decided not to execute her.

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