tracy21020 Posted 29 June , 2006 Author Share Posted 29 June , 2006 Steve Thank you so much. You are very good at finding these entries. I tried but couldn't find anything as usual! This medal is certainly a long way from WW1! I'm going to see if I can find out what he got it for. Thanks again Tracy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffsyeoman Posted 30 June , 2006 Share Posted 30 June , 2006 Tracy, That's fleet footwork by Steve (well done, Steve!) ; searching the database of the London Gazette is a black art at times - and you're lucky in having some of the best practitioners of it anywhere in this forum. I'm not one of them! Unfortunately, unless there's 'folk memory' of what he did (try local newspapers of the time?) the Gazette account of what he got it for is about it. You could try contacting the Central Chancery of Orders of Knighthood, as a direct descendant, but this is not a guaranteed path. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tracy21020 Posted 30 June , 2006 Author Share Posted 30 June , 2006 Hi Phil I've e-mailed the Corps of Commissionaires in Australia now waiting to hear if they can tell me anything. If they don't I'll try what you suggested. No-one in my family knew he had it so they're no help! As he was living in Australia when he was awarded it do you think it would have been mentioned in the papers here? As far as I know he always lived in the Woolwich area until he emigrated so I could possibly check those papers. Thanks Tracy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per ardua per mare per terram Posted 1 July , 2006 Share Posted 1 July , 2006 What was Thomas' army rank and number, the MID is probably his too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tracy21020 Posted 1 July , 2006 Author Share Posted 1 July , 2006 Here's Thomas' MIC. I'm sure you will be able to tell a lot more than me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per ardua per mare per terram Posted 1 July , 2006 Share Posted 1 July , 2006 He started the war as a corporal in the Royal West Kents and the first war zone it says he entered was East Aftrica (5a), that should be confirmed on the 1914/15 Star Roll. He transferred to the Royal Engineers and was still serving in the 1920s (when he was given the 7 digit number), so his records have not been released yet! EM = emblems = Mentioned In Dispatches, the oakleaves were issued 6 March 1922. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveE Posted 1 July , 2006 Share Posted 1 July , 2006 and the first war zone it says he entered was East Aftrica (5a), Theatre code for East Africa was 4a for disembarkations up to 31st December 1915. As he qualified for the 1914-15 Star and entered a theatre of war 6th Feb 1915 then theatre code 5a is Asia (Hejaz, I think). You can get a list of codes etc. from the LLT mothersite Here Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 1 July , 2006 Share Posted 1 July , 2006 It's curious that the medal card seems to be suggesting that the details on his VM/BWM should read "259029 Sjt. T. J. F. Ward, R.E." (according to the Asterisks). The RE number would seem to be a later number, approx 1917, whereas the RWK number seems like it could be a just pre-war number (though I admit to no expertise on RWK numbers). I would have thought it should be the RWK details on his VM/BWM since he seems to have been a Corporal with the Regiment. Odd. If I had to guess from the MIC the order of his Regiments/Corps I would say RWK 9553 (pre-war), RE 259029 (1917), RE WR/303510 (1918) and 1845464 RE (1920s). Also, wasn't there a suggestion that the MICs with later numbers were those that were entitled to a LSGC Medal? Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 1 July , 2006 Share Posted 1 July , 2006 The 2nd Battalion Royal West Kents arrived in Mesopotamia on 6th February 1915. From the Long, Long Trail: The Queen's Own (Royal West Kent Regiment) 2nd Battalion August 1914 : in Multan, India. Moved to Mesopotamia, arriving Basra 6 February 1915, attached to 12th Indian Brigade. Two Coys were attached to the 30th Brigade (6th (Poona) Division) in November 1915 and became beseiged at Kut-el-Amara, where they were captured on 29 April 1916. The remaining Coys were attached to 34th Brigade, which was part of 15th Indian Division, transferring to 17th Indian Division in August 1917. Remained in Mesopotamia throughout the war. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tracy21020 Posted 2 July , 2006 Author Share Posted 2 July , 2006 Thanks again for everyone's help. Where would I be without you! (Nowhere!!!) Steve, on his VM and BWM it says 9553 SJT TJF WARD R.W. KENT R if that's any help. If his service papers haven't been released yet do you know when they will be? What is LSGC medal? He was in Mesopotania in 1916 as I have the following photograph he sent to my Grandfather. Thanks Tracy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per ardua per mare per terram Posted 2 July , 2006 Share Posted 2 July , 2006 Oh! That's what it means!! I'd missed the change over in codes. Thanks guys, it does help to read books carefully. LSGC = Long Service Good Conduct Medal, the roll for that has also been digitised. They are being very tight lipped about the release date for further service records. You can ask the Ministry of Defence, they will give you a summery for about £30. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alliekiwi Posted 1 September , 2006 Share Posted 1 September , 2006 I've tried the National Archives of Australia and search 'British Empire Medal' for 1970 - 1972 and don't come up with his name. However, since he was awarded it on January 1st, I'd suggest - if you are looking at newspapers and such - that you also look for the 'New Years Honours List' or 'Queen's New Years Honours List' for 1971. I know in New Zealand those are published in the national newspaper, so the main state newspaper might have them for whatever state (Victoria?) he lived in Australia, not just the local one. (although the local one is likely to have a write-up about him specifically) The Australian Government site lists him here but adds nothing to the citation than 'Corps of Commissionaires' as you already know. Award: The Order of the British Empire - Medal (Civil) / British Empire Medal (Civil) (The British Empire Medal is the 6th level of OBE) Allie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tracy21020 Posted 5 September , 2006 Author Share Posted 5 September , 2006 Hi Allie Thanks for taking the time to look for me. I'm in England so I can't check the newspapers in Australia. I found a list for the News Years Honours on the National Achives site. The list was open but still held by the Foreign & Commonwealth office. I wrote to them under the freedom of information act. They replied saying that 'although the majority of the file can be released, it does not contain any information on Thomas Ward. Some parts of the file remains retained and falls within the scope of exemption 23, information supplied by or relating to bodies dealing with security matters. Section 23 is an absolute exemption and therefore the public interest test does not apply'. As he received it for services to Corps of Commissionaires he must be in the closed part of the file. I have recently found out the address of a relative in Australia and I'm hoping that they may know something. Otherwise I don't think I'll be able to find out. Best wishes Tracy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackblue Posted 7 September , 2006 Share Posted 7 September , 2006 His entry on the It's An Honour site (official Australian site). Do you have a date and place of birth? I wonder if he served in WW2 with the Australian forces? Name: WARD, Thomas James Frederick Award: The Order of the British Empire - Medal (Civil) / British Empire Medal (Civil) Date granted: 01 January 1971 State: n/a Suburb: n/a Postcode: n/a Citation: Corps of Commissionaires Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tracy21020 Posted 7 September , 2006 Author Share Posted 7 September , 2006 Hi Blackblue He was born in 1893 in Blackheath, Kent, England. I have no idea when he went to Australia or what he did in WW2. He would have been 78 when he received the medal. I have sent a list of questions to my Australian relative so I'm hoping she'll be able to give me some answers! Thank you for your help Tracy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tracy21020 Posted 9 February , 2007 Author Share Posted 9 February , 2007 Hi everyone As I got so much help with these medals I thought I'd give you an update. To jog your memories my Aunt has a set of four medals that we thought were for her uncle Charles. It turned out that three of them were for another uncle Thomas who emigrated to Australia. Only the Star was for Charles. My Aunt's cousin (Thomas' daughter) in Australia had given them to her several years ago I assume thinking they were Charles' medals. I contacted Thomas' daughter to find out what medals she has and finally I have heard back from her. She tells me that her Dad's medals are safe in the Australian War Memorial Museum in Canberra! So I suppose the museum must have a mixture of the brothers medals as well. She thought it best for them, safe and on display to the world for ever. So I think the medals will never be together again. My Aunt will not want to give up hers as they mean a lot to her. Does anyone know if I were to contact the museum they would be able to check what they have or is it such a large collection it would be an impossible task? Thanks Tracy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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