tracy21020 Posted 17 June , 2006 Share Posted 17 June , 2006 Hello I have the MIC for my great uncle. As far as i can see he only has 3 medals on it but he got 4. Could you tell me what they are from the photo please. Thank you Tracy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldstreamer Posted 17 June , 2006 Share Posted 17 June , 2006 British empire medal (but I will check ) and 14 star trio plus mention in desptaches Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldstreamer Posted 17 June , 2006 Share Posted 17 June , 2006 More precisley now Ive looked it up Medal of the Order of the British Empire -might say if its gallantry or meritorious service - not got one so not a field I know about Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tracy21020 Posted 17 June , 2006 Author Share Posted 17 June , 2006 Thank you Ian, I will have a look as soon as I can. They are at my Aunts. Which one is the British Empire medal and what should I look for to find out if it's a gallantry or meritotious medal? thanks again Tracy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strachan Posted 17 June , 2006 Share Posted 17 June , 2006 The British Empire Medal (or BEM) is the silver circular medal with the red ribbon, on the extreme left of that picture. As a medal, it was just under the M.B.E (Member of the Most Excellent Order of the British Empire). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrieduncan Posted 17 June , 2006 Share Posted 17 June , 2006 No mention of the BEM on CWGC, maybe in the London Gazette? http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_detail...casualty=825943 Barrie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tracy21020 Posted 17 June , 2006 Author Share Posted 17 June , 2006 Thank you, Strachan. That's very nice to know. Would there be a different MIC for this then or or is on this one somewhere that I didn't realise? Is there anywhere I could look up to find out any more about this medal, would it be in the London Gazette? Thanks for your help Tracy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tracy21020 Posted 17 June , 2006 Author Share Posted 17 June , 2006 Thank you, Barrie I'll try the gazette. Tracy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrieduncan Posted 17 June , 2006 Share Posted 17 June , 2006 His MID should be in the gazette anyway, not sure of how the BEM was gazetted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBettsMCDCM Posted 17 June , 2006 Share Posted 17 June , 2006 The BEM pictured is a civil award{military versions have a central stripe of grey}it is the 2nd type with later Rose Pink & Silver Pearl Grey Ribbon & there will be no MiC for this,It was not instituted until long after the Great War in this form,so it must belong to another Family member,{as your Great~Uncle was KiA in 1917},who may have worn it with his Relatives WW1 Medals,Whoever won it may have won it for Home Guard,Merchant Navy,Civil Defence Services in WW2 or it may be for meritorious service with such things as the Post Office,Public Bodies,Companies,Etc; They are sometimes difficult to locate in the Gazette,if the actual Medal has all his names on it migh be easier to search the gazettes online site by searching for the last two. If you can give the name on the BEM & that on the Trio someone should be able to help you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrieduncan Posted 17 June , 2006 Share Posted 17 June , 2006 Did they give this version out before the end of WW1? Going by CWGC this chap died in 1917. I'v had a plough through the gazette but came up with nowt, not that that says much as I'm usually pretty c**p when it comes to the LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tracy21020 Posted 17 June , 2006 Author Share Posted 17 June , 2006 Hello Thanks for all the suggestions. I can't find anything in the gazette either. I will check the medals as soon as I can to see whose name or number is on that medal. They are all joined together and I assumed they were all for the same person. I know one of them had his number around the edge. He did have two other brothers in WW1. I'll let you know as soon as I can. Tracy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBettsMCDCM Posted 17 June , 2006 Share Posted 17 June , 2006 No Barrie,this type was not instituted until 29th December 1922,when the small 1917~22; BEM with Britannia on the Obverse & GRI on the reverse was replaced by this larger type & the ribbon changed from Purple {Military:~ Purple with red stripe} to the Rose Pink & Pearl Grey of the current OBE series on 30th July 1937 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrieduncan Posted 17 June , 2006 Share Posted 17 June , 2006 Thanks for clearing that one up. Tracy, is it certain that the MIC you posted above is the right one? All the medals shown above should be named, the circular ones round the rim, the star on the reverse. I don't know how a non-military/civil award would be named, I'm guessing there wouldn't be any rank or number. I would have thought it would have been fairly straight forward finding his MID in the gazette, given the name, unless of course its worded differently or incorrectly in the LG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBettsMCDCM Posted 17 June , 2006 Share Posted 17 June , 2006 I don't know how a non-military/civil award would be named, Early WW2 Civil BEM{& presumably before WW2} were hand engraved in Serif Capitals; with usually all forenames & surname no ranks or numbers {I have a 1941 Blitz PLA Policeman's BEM with 3 Forenames & Surname,so engraved};Later they were impressed with small Capitals similarly to late issue WW1 & GSM etc Medals {again no rank or numbers for HG,MN,Police etc;},& here is where the problem lies sometimes with full names & sometimes with Forename,Initial{s} & Surname,which makes for a hard Gazette 'trace',Tracy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tracy21020 Posted 17 June , 2006 Author Share Posted 17 June , 2006 Thanks again for all your advice. The MIC is definitely the right one. His full name is Charles William Arthur(he was called Arthur by his family). His elder brother Thomas was a policeman so the BEM could possibly be his. I will check. Best wishes Tracy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themonsstar Posted 18 June , 2006 Share Posted 18 June , 2006 Hi I have the BEM & my one as my full name, I got it for the "NI & the Gulf War"back in 1991 a double tap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldstreamer Posted 18 June , 2006 Share Posted 18 June , 2006 Hello Cant see the MID on the medal index card web site - but its not 100 % accurate If the BEM was added to the group then its possible the MID was too Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldstreamer Posted 18 June , 2006 Share Posted 18 June , 2006 Hello whats a double tap ? A tour ? Not familiar with that one Often wondered if it was your group.... Ian Hi I have the BEM & my one as my full name, I got it for the "NI & the Gulf War"back in 1991 a double tap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffsyeoman Posted 19 June , 2006 Share Posted 19 June , 2006 A 'double tap' is a shooting term - being able to loose off two rounds quickly from a single shot weapon. It's usually shorthand for two events in quick succession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tracy21020 Posted 26 June , 2006 Author Share Posted 26 June , 2006 Hello everyone I've been to look at the medals today. Only the star has Charles' name on! The others are for his brother Thomas. I think because the star is the only one with the name written on the back it was assumed they were his. My Aunt has had them for about 5 years, they were sent to her by Thomas' daughter in Australia. So she must have Charles' medals and thinks they are her fathers. The BEM is for Meritorious Service. On the back it says Instituted by King George V so this should mean it was before 1936? His name is around the edge Thomas James Frederick Ward. There is not a date or number on it. Do you think I would be able to find out what it was for? Thank you Tracy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffsyeoman Posted 27 June , 2006 Share Posted 27 June , 2006 Tracy, All the BEMs of this (second) type have 'Instituted by King George V' on them. But it should also have the cypher of the reigning monarch in the centre of the reverse, i.e. GVR; GVIR or EIIR. This will at least narrow down the time periods - though it is still a slog to find a BEM through the Gazette. The Gazette will not say what it was for, but will say what his job was at the time of award (e.g. 'Postman, Chelmsford') . A shame that this is a 'composite' group (even if within the family) - and it seems that the British War Medal (round silver) and the Allied Victory Medal (round bronze) are 'scrubbed' - naming removed. I don't think the Mention in Dispatches is Charles' either, as there doesn't seem to be a mention on his MIC of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tracy21020 Posted 27 June , 2006 Author Share Posted 27 June , 2006 Hi Phil Thanks for that. I took some more photos of the medals so luckily I can see it says EIIR on it. That narrows it down a bit as he went to Australia when he retired. Sorry I wasn't clear before. The medals do have Thomas' name around the edge, I just meant that my Aunt and her cousin (and me!) had only looked at the star with Charles' name on the back and assumed they were all for him. Now we know differently! I'll see if I can find anything out about the BEM and see if the relations want to swap medals so they have the right ones! Best wishes Tracy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldstreamer Posted 28 June , 2006 Share Posted 28 June , 2006 Hello Heres hoping you get the medals reunited again Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveE Posted 28 June , 2006 Share Posted 28 June , 2006 Tracy Here's the BEM details from the London Gazette, #45262, dated 1st January 1971. THE QUEEN has been graciously pleased to approve the award of the British Empire Medal (Civil Division) to the undermentioned: STATE OF VICTORIA Thomas James Frederick WARD. For services to the Corps of Commissionaires. Link to the Gazette is Here Hope this helps. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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