IanA Posted 15 June , 2006 Share Posted 15 June , 2006 I posted a topic on this forum recently headed 'Any Other Films?' which was viewed by just over 100 people but only had one reply. In this post I indicated that I very much enjoy viewing my copies of the Somme and Ancre films and wondering whether there were any other films on the other major battles. Since no-one appeared to know, I wrote to the film department of the IWM and got a very full reply from Mr Smither there who informed me that there was another major production entitled 'The German Retreat and the Battle of Arras' lasting for 68 minutes. In addition there is a series of short (5-12 minutes) films featuring specific regiments of the British army: these include the Durham L.I., Cheshire, 2nd Middlesex, Royal Berkshire, King's (L'pool), Bedford, KOYLI, Northants, W Riding, Royal West Kents, Dorset, Norfolk and others.There is also a 24 minute film of the Cambrai Offensive. Mr Smither thought that a commercial distributor would not find it profitable to copy these films to DVD or video format but, surely, with the rise and rise of interest at every level of society (just see how numbers at the Menin Gate ceremony have risen over the past years!) coupled with the improvement in the technology used to copy such films, such a venture is worth investigating. How many copies would be ordered by members of this forum? The Western Front Associaition has a large membership who are bound to be interested. The new visitor centres and existing museums in Flanders and the Somme would surely stock them (DVDs can provide subtitles in English, French and German which the old video format could not). The 90th anniversary of the Battle of Arras approaches fast and the frenzy to come when the 100th anniversary pops along doesn't bear thinking about I would like to think that we, in this forum, might generate enough interest to cause the IWM to re-assess the possibilities of releasing the Arras, Cambrai and regimental films on DVD. What about it? Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gporta Posted 15 June , 2006 Share Posted 15 June , 2006 Ian, I think is a very good idea. I suppose that we have seen edited bits of these films in documentaries but it would be a good idea to have the whole original material. And, as you say, DVD offer many possibilities, not only subtitles in other languages (which would make the DVD more marketable, world-wide), but alternate soundtracks with comments, etc. And it would be good to release it in 0 format, too (compatible with all DVD players) Gloria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KateJ Posted 15 June , 2006 Share Posted 15 June , 2006 I would be very keen to see the Battle of the Somme on dvd and other archive footage. I'm very lucky in that I'm doing an Open University history degree and my current course includes a video of archive footage from the IWM. It's fascinating and I'd love to be able to have access to more footage. Kate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T8HANTS Posted 15 June , 2006 Share Posted 15 June , 2006 I would also like to see the post war silent re-enactment films made by I believe "British Instructional Films". Produced on some home use format. The whole issue of film archive material is very poor in this country, it should all be digitized just to preserve the original film stock, even if it has been copied over from the old inflammable nitrate stock. Once digitized it is easy to produce a low volume number of DVD's, and we don't need flashy packaging. Perhaps this is one we should pester the lottery about to provide the funding. Gareth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wainfleet Posted 15 June , 2006 Share Posted 15 June , 2006 In answer to the original question, I'd buy a copy! And I simply cannot believe that there isn't masses more film extant - somewhere - than the IWM have mentioned, even if they don't have copies of it. What about all the newsreels shown in cinemas at the time, and all the miscellaneous bits of film that featured in the series The Great War and didn't seem to belong in the categories mentioned? If that's all the IWM have got, is it, er, heresy to suggest that perhaps they've been less proactive in acquiring historical documentation than they might have been? Which leads one to wonder where the rest of this film stock is - some of it with the BBC perhaps? Some of it is undoubtedly here: http://www.britishpathe.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanA Posted 15 June , 2006 Author Share Posted 15 June , 2006 Wainfleet, Have you checked the IWM website? They do seem to have loads of 'newsreel-type' bits of film. Many of them are two or three minutes long - I am trying to canvass support for the publication of what I believe to be a profit-making venture. Perhaps, if we make this happen, a compilation of newsreel clips might be thought viable. Cheers, Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6th Shropshires Posted 15 June , 2006 Share Posted 15 June , 2006 Great Idea Ian, how can we help, may be you could draw up a list of those who show interest-you can add my name-I'll buy any copies of old footage released. Annette Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanA Posted 15 June , 2006 Author Share Posted 15 June , 2006 Hi Annette, I must say that if I could go back to IWM and say that there are 50 - 100 - 150 immediate sales then this may prompt a re-examination of their outlook. Fingers crossed!!! Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrynee Posted 15 June , 2006 Share Posted 15 June , 2006 Definitely count me in - had been wondering recently if it was possible to get hold of some of this material. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveBrigg Posted 15 June , 2006 Share Posted 15 June , 2006 Great idea. There are already commercial documentaries of some of the major battles available in WH Smiths, which make use of some of this footage, so the demand must be there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Fair Posted 15 June , 2006 Share Posted 15 June , 2006 Count me in. The IWM film catalogue for 1914-18 was published by Flicks Books back in c. 1992. There are something like 1,200 items in the collection, many of them 2-3 minute newsreels. (My copy is in storage at present so I cant look it up.) The catalogue is throughly indexed by unit. There is a film that I would love to see of one of the companies of 1/1 Hertfordshires on the railway station at Hatfield or St Albans boarding the trains that would take them to the port in November 1914. Charles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 15 June , 2006 Share Posted 15 June , 2006 Count me in also, would love to see some of the footage released on DVD. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borden Battery Posted 16 June , 2006 Share Posted 16 June , 2006 From the CEF Study Group Recommended Great War website list ... The National Film Board WW1 Film Project The National Film Board of Canada ( NFB) continues a program to digitize Canadian films from the Great War. A collection of films that document Canada's participation in World War I, including training exercises, major battles, aviation footage and the war effort in Canada and include the following film clips: Colonel Sam Hughes Reviews the Troops, Canadian Training School in Bexhill, Sir Robert Borden with Canadian Troops 1, 2nd and 10th Battalions in Training, Cavalry in Training, Canadian Training School in Shorncliffe, Observation Balloons, Fighter Planes, Airplane Casualties, Canadian Journalists Visit France, The 22nd (French Canadian) Battalion, Canadian Generals, Canadian Corps Championship, Hospital Bombed by German Airplanes, German Atrocities in Cemetery, Sir Arthur Currie Being décorated by General Orth, Sir Robert Borden with the Canadian Troops 2, Borden in Ottawa, Canadian Forestry Corps, Canadian Light Railway Section 1, Moving Heavy Equipment On Muddy Roads, Canadian Engineers Laying Field Telephones, Canadians on the Western Front 1, August Offensive 2, Salvage Work on the Canadian Front, Prisoners and, Wounded Coming in Dressing Station, Canadians on the Western Front 2, August Offensive 1, Battle of Arras 1, Canadian Troops in Action, To Willie With Compliments, Battle of Arras 4, Battle of Arras 2, Canadians Advance Near Cambrai 3, Canadians Advance Near Cambrai 2, Canadians Advance Near Cambrai 1, September Offensive 3, September, Offensive 2, Canadians Advance East of Arras 2, August Offensive 7, August Offensive 5, August Offensive 4, August Offensive 6, Battle of Arras 3, Canadians Advance East of Arras 1, September Offensive 1, Bourlon Wood, On the Road to Valenciennes, Valenciennes 1, Canadians Moving to Germany, Canadian Victoria Cross Winners, Canadians at Mons and Valenciennes 2. [May 2006 - Updated] http://www.nfb.ca/ww1/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Posted 16 June , 2006 Share Posted 16 June , 2006 Which leads one to wonder where the rest of this film stock is - some of it with the BBC perhaps? Two other sources source worth investigating are North West Film Archive and the umbrella organisation artifact. Gwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim_oz Posted 16 June , 2006 Share Posted 16 June , 2006 Ian I posted this in answer to your first question but though I would post it again here. While its from 1918 there is a fabulous set of US Army Signal Corps propaganda films called “America Goes Over” which can be down loaded from the Million Book project web site at http://www.archive.org/details/millionbooks. Enter the search line “America Goes Over AND subject:"World War I" “ and choose All Media Types. There is quite a bit of battle footage from July and September 1918 some apparently real and some clearly staged. Part one has sections on the Italian, French and British (though the troops look like Australians to me). Its well worthwile downloading and having a look at. If the IWM ever wants to release a DVD of their material I will be in line for it. Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borden Battery Posted 16 June , 2006 Share Posted 16 June , 2006 Hello Tim Very good reference to the site. If you take the time, there is a great deal of information on the website you recommended. It is on the CEF Study Group Recommended List and also includes a large number of downloadable books which are out of copyright. Borden Battery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Maier Posted 16 June , 2006 Share Posted 16 June , 2006 There is some Great War material on the British Pathe website. You can download low resolution watermarked versions free. All other versions are quite expensive though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 17 June , 2006 Share Posted 17 June , 2006 Ian - missed this until I saw your other post. Yes, certainly. Count me in; I am always loking for ideas for my wife's birthday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John S Posted 17 June , 2006 Share Posted 17 June , 2006 I too would be interested. Regards John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanA Posted 18 June , 2006 Author Share Posted 18 June , 2006 Well, I've gone and been and done it! There is a poll set up where everyone can register their interest (or lack of!!). Please take the time and trouble to respond even if you have already expressed an interest. Thank you to all who have encouraged me on this topic. Cheers, Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSoldier Posted 18 June , 2006 Share Posted 18 June , 2006 Hello Ian. I did reply to your previous thread, but, yes please, count me in. I would love top see that footage especially that of the Bedfordshire's. Terry W. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon2 Posted 19 June , 2006 Share Posted 19 June , 2006 Ian, Got my vote. New material is always welcome. Simon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
domsim Posted 23 June , 2006 Share Posted 23 June , 2006 If you are a student or staff in full time further education and have ATHENS or EDINA accounts log in and go to the Education Media OnLine section and you can download and watch the following in their entirety: Title: Australian Corps Training School Country: au Duration: 4 mins 58 secs Year: 1918 Description: A demonstration by Australian infantry of tactics used in trench fighting on the Western Front, early 1918 (?). An extremely valuable demonstration of the tactics in use by the British and Imperial forces during the final stages of trench warfare. Collection: Imperial War Museum Film and Video Archive Title: The Battle of Arras Duration: 67 mins 23 secs Credits: Camera: Geoffrey H Malins, J B McDowell, H C Raymond Year: 6/6/1917 Description: The German retreat and Battle of Arras. Includes scenes of devastation in Arras with shots of the ruined cathedral. The reopening of the railway station, a raid beyond the front lines from which South African troops return with prisoners and various events in the advance from the taking of Vimy Bridge to the capture of Monchy-le-Preux are also recorded. Collection: Imperial War Museum Film and Video Archive Producer: William F Jury Title: The Battle of the Ancre and the Advance of the Tanks Duration: 65 mins 21 secs Credits: Camera: Geoffrey H Malins, J B McDowell Year: 1917 Description: The Battle of Ancre and Advance of the tanks. The film covers events between September and November 1916, includes the first shots of tanks at the front and there are also scenes of fraternisation between German prisoners and their British captors. Collection: Imperial War Museum Film and Video Archive Producer: William F Jury Title: The Battle of the Somme Duration: 73 mins 07 secs Credits: Editor: C.A. Urban, Geoffrey H. Malins Camera: Geoffrey H. Malins. J.B. McDowell Description: British forces, chiefly 7th and 29th Divisions, on the first day of the Somme offensive, Western Front, 1 July 1916. The classic First World War film in every sense, widely used for stockshots even today. It established the basic structure of the 'big battle' film, which was to continue for a further two productions until the spring of 1917. The only British official film to have a major impact on the perception of the war, both at the time and in historical terms. Also the only official film of the war with a claim to be regarded as great art in its own right. The unprecedented and unexpected public success of this film established cinema as a major factor in British propaganda for the rest of the war. A detailed shotsheet and analysis of the film has been published to accompany video distribution of the film. Collection: Imperial War Museum Film and Video Archive Producer: William F. Jury Title: British Naval Activities After the Great British Victory of Jutland Duration: 14 mins 33 secs Credits: Camera: F.W. Engholm Year: 1918 Description: The Royal Navy in 1918. A good general overview of what was the greatest fleet in the world.Although in reality a draw, the German High Seas Fleet never ventured out to sea again and so the Battle of Jutland was hailed as a great victory. Collection: Imperial War Museum Film and Video Archive Title: A Day With The 1st Battalion of the Welsh Guards Duration: 6 mins 20 secs Year: 1915 Description: A recruitment film for the Welsh Guards, the new regiment of the Brigade of Guards raised at the express wish of H.M. The King. The Guards are shown in a number of on and off duty activities in an attempt to boost recruitment by 1,000 men. note: the King authorised the formation of the Welsh Guards on 26 February 1915 and the 1st Battalion embarked for France on 17 August 1915, from which one may infer that this recruitment film was made between these two dates Collection: Imperial War Museum Film and Video Archi Title: Der Magische Guertel (The Enchanted Circle) Country: de Duration: 44 mins 47 secs Credits: Script: Hans Brennert. Camera: (?) Loeser Year: 1917 Description: A record of a voyage by the U-35 between 31st March and 6th May 1917, sinking merchant ships in the Mediterranean and Eastern Atlantic. Titles identify the ships and their cargoes and emphasise the bloodless nature of the submarine's victories. The 'girdle' of the title is the 'impregnable' ring of U-boats which threaten to strangle Britain of supplies and food. Collection: Imperial War Museum Film and Video Archive Title: Heroes of Gallipoli Country: au Duration: 17 mins 57 secs Credits: Camera: Ellis Ashmead Bartlett, Ernest Brooks. Editor: C.E.W. Bean. Description: British and Australian forces at Anzac, Cape Helles, and Suvla, Gallipoli, May-August 1915. The only film of this campaign. The slightly primitive look gives it at times a surreal appearance. The scene of Australians firing is genuine combat. Collection: Imperial War Museum Film and Video Archive Title: How the British Army Broke the Famous Hindenburg Line Duration: 30 mins 04 secs Year: 1918 Description: Compilation film of British and Canadian forces in the Advance to Victory, Western Front, August-October 1918. See also the AUGUST OFFENSIVE and SEPTEMBER OFFENSIVE series, particularly IWM 322, IWM 323, IWM 325 and IWM 326 from which some of the scenes in this compilation come. This is a good attempt at salvaging some poor original film, but it is probable that some fakes have been used in the sections showing troop movements. Collection: Imperial War Museum Film and Video Archive Producer: William F. Jury Title: The Lancashire Fusiliers Series title: British Regiments series Duration: 10 mins 07 secs Year: 1918 Description: I. Probably 1st Battalion, the Lancashire Fusiliers, Western Front, autumn 1917. II. A mass burial by soldiers of the British Army on the Western Front, 1916-1918. It is likely that the opening sequence represents the incomplete film of the battalion, and the burial service is an accidental addition. See also IWM 388 and the rest of the series. The burial service sequence is a very moving piece of film, and an excellent example of its type. Collection: Imperial War Museum Film and Video Archive Title: Our Day - German U-Boats Lying at Harwich Country: uk Duration: 4 mins 41 secs Year: 1918 Description: Film of surrendered U-boats at Harwich, November 1918. Various films were made on this theme at the end of the First World War in which the great 'menace' of the U-boat is finally seen defeated in a British port. This film of surrendered U-boats at Harwich dates from November 1918 Collection: Imperial War Museum Film and Video Archive Title: The South Africans Hold a Memorial Service at Delville Wood Duration: 5 mins 06 secs Year: 1917 Description: Memorial service held by the South African Brigade for its members killed in taking Delville Wood during the First Battle of the Somme, Western Front, the service taking place in early 1917. With a stark and dramatic backdrop of blasted trees and churned-up earth, the services are a mixture of religious and military ceremony. The ceremonial and dignified nature of the funeral was important to reassure audiences at home that the bodies of their loved ones, although not repatriated, were still treated with an appropriate level of dignity and respect. Collection: Imperial War Museum Film and Video Archive Title: With the Eyes of the Navy Country: uk Duration: 13 mins 26 secs Year: 1918 (?) Description: RAF cooperation with the Royal Navy at the end of the First World War. The Royal Naval Air service provided protection for convoys an other shipping against the 'menace' of the U-boat. This vital lifeline for food and other war material was held open in a constant battle to outwit this new aspect of naval warfare. Using flying boats and airships the RNAS patrolled the coasts of the United Kingdom and a typical sequence of events on one such patrol is filmed for the camera. A faked attack by 'hostile' aircraft is followed by an attack on an 'enemy' submarine. Collection: Imperial War Museum Film and Video Archive Title: With the Indian Troops at the Front. Part 1 Series title: Official Pictures of the British Army in France - First series Duration: 8 mins 15 secs Credits: Camera: Geoffrey H, Malins or Edward G Tong Year: 1916 Description: Units of the former Indian Corps, just after its disbandment, in rear areas before their departure from France, November and December 1915. Note: this film was the very first of the OFFICIAL PICTURES OF THE BRITISH ARMY IN FRANCE and so represents the first British official film record of any of the war zones released for public viewing. The film was subject to censorship at GHQ France. The resulting censored sections are now in IWM 383. Collection: Imperial War Museum Film and Video Archive Title: With the Indian Troops at the Front. Part 2 Series title: Official Pictures of the British Army in France - First series Duration: 6 mins 29 secs Credits: Camera: Geoffrey H Malins or Edward G Tong Year: 1916 Description: Short Summary Units of the former Indian Corps, mainly 7th (Meerut) Division, just after the Corps' disbandment, in rear areas before their departure from France, November and December 1915. Note: this film was subject to censorship at GHQ France. The resulting censored sections are now in IWM 383. Collection: Imperial War Museum Film and Video Archive Title: With The Royal Flying Corps (Somewhere in France) Duration: 13 mins 58 secs Credits: Camera: (either) JB McDowell, H C Raymond Year: 1917 Description: Various activities of life on a typical aerodrome show the many tasks and hazards of life as a flyer and groundcrew on the Western Front. Crashed machines are repaired and a number of different types of aircraft are shown. Notable are the FE2d, Sopwith 1 - 1/2 Strutter and Nieuport scouts. Collection: Imperial War Museum Film and Video Archive Producer: William F Jury Title: The Women's Land Army Duration: 11 mins 34 secs Credits: Actors: Violet Hopson, Ivy Close. Year: 1917 Description: British recruiting film for the Women's Land Army, 1917. Collection: Imperial War Museum Film and Video Archive Title: Women's Royal Air Force - Life on a British Aerodrome Duration: 9 mins 09 secs Year: 1918 Description: Life for WRAF members at a coastal RAF station including helping to bring a patrol airship, SSZ13, out of its hangar and rigging and repairing a variety of aircraft and their engines. Scenes of the leisure side of life are included. Collection: Imperial War Museum Film and Video Archive Title: The Wonderful Organisation of the R.A.M.C: How Our Wounded Are Cared For Duration: 9 mins 01 secs Credits: Camera: Geoffrey Malins or E.G. Tong Year: 1916 Description: The RAMC system for dealing with casualties, France, April 1916. Collection: Imperial War Museum Film and Video Archive Title: The World's Greatest Story - Episode 15. Part 2 Duration: 16 mins 05 secs Year: 1919 Description: A thematic treatment of the last days of the First World War and subsequent British victory celebrations. For the material in the first reel see the series AUGUST OFFENSIVE and SEPTEMBER OFFENSIVE. See in particular IWM 113, IWM 116, IWM 185, IWM 253, IWM 314 and IWM 345. The scenes of Cologne come from IWM 376. The scenes of London come from IWM 439 Technical: this episode is held on reels IWM 420-29 and IWM 420-30 Collection: Imperial War Museum Film and Video Archive Title: WRNS Duration: 9 mins 02 secs Year: 1918 Description: Work by members of the Women's Royal Naval Service at a Royal Navy coastal torpedo boat base on the south coast of England, probably 1917 or 1918. Collection: Imperial War Museum Film and Video Archive Cheers Dominic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcarleton Posted 3 July , 2006 Share Posted 3 July , 2006 Incredible. I know I would be interested in any films archival or documentary about Messines, Arras or artillery units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treetop Posted 3 July , 2006 Share Posted 3 July , 2006 I would definitely buy any film/dvd produced from this source. Pity we can't have general access if it is available to schools/education establishments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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