160th Infantry Regiment

[Trenchrat]

Hello,

I recently acquired the diary of an officer in the German 160th Infantry Regiment. Can a fellow member tell me what battles this regiment was in? The diary is short going from about August-November of 1914.

Also,I need the diary translated along with two brief feldpost cards the gentleman wrote. The author of the diary was a Ludwig Klaproth. On one of the feldpost cards he listed his Kompanie,Bataillon,etc. His assignments as of August 20,1914,(the date of the feldpost) were as follows:3rd Kompanie,1st Bataillon,160th Infantry Regiment,15th Division,8th Armeekorps. If anyone out there in the trenches can help with translating this diary and or giving me a list of this regiments battles,it'd be most appreciated.

John Vaughn

[Jack Sheldon]

John

IR 160 was from the Rhineland. It was part of 80 Infantry Brigade. Your other details are correct. Its 1914 calendar is as follows:

22-23 Aug Battle of Neufchateau

24-29 Aug Battle along the Meuse river

27 Aug Bombardement of Fort Ayvelles

30 Aug - 5 Sep Pursuit to the Marne (including Montgou 31 Aug - 1 Sep)

6-12 Sep Battle of the Marne

7-8 Sep Vitry le Francois

13 Sep - 19 Dec Positional warfare in Champagne. This included a minor encounter at Souain 19 Sep, another at Perthes 26 Sep. Then the regiment appears to have carried out various roles, including training around Somme-Py and Ste Marie-a-Py. They had fairly heavy casualties from time to time during this period.

IR 160 has an excellent history: Geschichte des 9. Rhein.Infanterie-Regiment Nr. 160 im Weltkriege 1914-1918 Published by Sporn, Zeulenroda 1931. If you give me the name of the officer, I shall try to look him up for you, but I am afraid that I cannot take on your translation. I am absoutely up to my ears with work this year.

Jack

[Jack Sheldon]

Sorry. I should have read your post more carefully. If it did indeed belong to Leutnant Klaproth 3rd Coy, 1st Bn IR 160, no wonder it is short. The history says that he was killed on 22 Aug 14! Apparently He was mortally wounded in the head and died a little while later. The wound was received in a sharp action, fighting house to house in the village of Porcheresse in Belgium. The regimental history has a detailed account of the action, but nothing really on Klaproth.

Jack

[SiegeGunner]

John,

Could you post a scan of one of the cards and a representative page of the diary - to gauge how easy the writing is to decipher and (if you also indicate how many pages there are) how much there is to translate.

I am a professional translator myself and am happy to advise you on the feasibility and scale of the task, but I'm afraid I don't have the time to do the translation for you.

Translating even comparatively short handwritten German docs of WW1 vintage can be very time-consuming and you may find (especially if you are not related to Klaproth and/or your interest is any way commercial) that pals with the requisite knowledge and skills are unable to help you.

If no-one offers, and if you then decide to have the diary translated professionally in the US, be sure to choose a translator who is familiar with this kind of material - as a generalist translator of modern, 'civilian' German is unlikely to produce a good result.

Mick

[Trenchrat]

Hi Jack,Mick,

Thanks for your quick replies. I believe this book is more like a tribute type book, written to the memory of Leutnant Paul Klaproth by a Ludwig Klaproth. I assume Ludwig was a brother or other relative. At the beginning of the book is a photo postcard of what I assume is Paul's grave (I have to assume this since this photo and one other of the grave, were taken at a distance.) Why Ludwig didn't take a close up of the grave so you could read the writing who knows,perhaps he became too emotional at the site of his brothers grave. On the opposite page from the first grave photo is what amounts to a title page,I was told it says,"The Grave." There are 48 pages of writing, the rest of the book is filled with photo postcards of I assume a tourist spot called Spa as well as a newspaper article,two photos of the grave,the two feldposts from Paul and two newspapers it looks as though Ludwig sent home as they are dated in September 1914, and Paul was gone by then,so Ludwig must have sent them home.

Jack it's interesting that Paul was hit on Aug 22,1914, as the one feldpost is dated Aug 20,1914, and sent from Braunschweig. Was Braunschweig possibly where the 160th invaded Belgium from? Also, now that you told me where Paul was shot the names of the towns make more sense. The towns would be quite familiar to any WW II buff. Some of the towns mentioned are Stavelot and Malmedy. Did the book give an exact date for Paul's death? I would guess the 160th continued to see hard action throughout the rest of the war didn't Jack?

Mick I'm not too good with computers, but I can try and scan one of the cards and one of the pages. Both Paul and Ludwigs writing are quite legible. It's just a matter I guess of finding someone who can translate

WW I era German. I knew one person who could do it,but they're old and can no longer do it due to health reasons. Still I'd like to get it translated some day to see what Ludwig had to say about Paul and to see what Paul had to say in his feldposts the one from August 20,1914, being his last letter home or so it would appear.

John

[Trenchrat]

Jack one other thing. Is Porcheresse,Belgium near Neufchateau? You said in your list of battles that the 160th was fighting in the Battle of Neufchateau on Aug 22-23,1914, that's why I'm asking if the village of Porcheresse is near Neufchateau.

John

[Trenchrat]

Jack does the regimental history state what forces the 160th was fighting on Aug 22,1914 at Porcheresse?

John

[SiegeGunner]

John,

If there's some doubt about what the 'diary' is, or who wrote it, perhaps you should scan and post the first couple of pages of it - rather than a random page from the body of the text. And if the 'diary' and the cards are in different hands, it might be useful to scan and post both of the cards.

The German language, as such, hasn't changed enormously since WW1 - it's the Suetterlin handwriting script, the proper names, military references, abbreviations, etc, that fox people who aren't experienced at translating this kind of material.

Mick

[Jack Sheldon]

This phase of the Battle of the Frontiers is referred to generically as the Battle of Neufchateau. The history of IR 160 uses the term as well. Neufchateau is in southern Belgium near places like Arlon. Porcheresse is a village due south of Huy and about one third of the way between Huy and Neufchateau. Google a Belgian map and you will find it. Inevitably during this advance through the Ardennes, every little vilage and hamlet was fought over. A quick glance at the history simply says that they confronted the French Fourth Army, which is not a lot of help. When I have a minute, I shall see if the maps of 'Les Armees Francaises dans la Grande Guerre' can throw any more light on it.

Jack

[Jack Sheldon]

John

I have scanned Tome I Vol 1 pp 399-402 of Les Armees Francaises dans la Grand Guerre. I am no expert on the French army, but it does seem to me that IR 160 was opposed in Porcheresse on 22 Aug by units of 21st French Division, 11th Corps. Some advance guards of the 9th French Cavalry Division seem to have been present. The only hint about a regiment is a footnote on p 400, which mentions 137th RI sending a report.

I do not have access to French orders of battle here, so I cannot comment, but hope that someone better informed about the French army of 1914 takes this thread over, now that we have come up with the odd clue.

Jack

[Guest Dr.Mabuse]

Hello John.

Jack it's interesting that Paul was hit on Aug 22,1914, as the one feldpost is dated Aug 20,1914, and sent from Braunschweig. Was Braunschweig possibly where the 160th invaded Belgium from? Also, now that you told me where Paul was shot the names of the towns make more sense. The towns would be quite familiar to any WW II buff. Some of the towns mentioned are Stavelot and Malmedy. Did the book give an exact date for Paul's death? I would guess the 160th continued to see hard action throughout the rest of the war didn't Jack?

The IR 160 has nothing to do with Braunschweig (engl. "Brunswick", capital of the duchy of Braunschweig, 50km east of Hanover), the only "official" units from Braunschweig are the IR92, the HR(Husaren Regiment) 17 and parts of the Feldartillerie Regiment 46.

Many men from Braunschweig served in the IR164 (Hannoversches), RIR 73 and 78 and the Landwehr IR 78. If there are men from Braunschweig in other units, their are individuals. So it may be possible that Paul is from Braunschweig but serves in IR160.

Mick I'm not too good with computers, but I can try and scan one of the cards and one of the pages. Both Paul and Ludwigs writing are quite legible. It's just a matter I guess of finding someone who can translate

WW I era German. I knew one person who could do it,but they're old and can no longer do it due to health reasons. Still I'd like to get it translated some day to see what Ludwig had to say about Paul and to see what Paul had to say in his feldposts the one from August 20,1914, being his last letter home or so it would appear.

As historian (and German) I am able to read old german writings (worked some time in archives), so I could - if I find some time - try my best to transcribe/translate the postcards/letters if you send or post some scans.

Daniel (from Braunschweig, Germany)