Don`t Mention The War

[PhilB]

Scenes on TV yesterday of some vapid British football fans taunting the Germans with plastic Spitfires and Nazi salutes. First reaction was embarrassment. Second was to wonder why it`s always WW2 that is referred to and never WW1. Is it just that WW2 is easier to parody or has WW1 slipped out of the current football yob`s memory (or never been in it)? Phil B

[Tom Morgan]

Interesting question! I've just thought about it while making some toast and here's my theory.

I think it comes down to the history diet they are fed, which will be populist, "well-known fact" stuff - history which can be summed up in a sentence or two. There's no need to know how or why the war began or anything like that. For example:

"WW2 caused our people a lot of grief. The Germans were to blame. We beat them".

"WW1 caused our people a lot of grief. The Generals were to blame. It was pointless. The Germans were not that bad. We won. I think. It was a long time ago."

Combine this with the belief that young Brits abroad have a kind of tribal right to insult the natives of whatever country they are in, and there you have it.

Plus that fact that a part of the British Press sees the World Cup tournament as a tournament whose ideal finale would be England beating Germany in the final and makes lots of references to WW2 in this context.

Tom

[PhilB]

Nice appraisal, Tom! Interesting that of some 30,000 fans out there, we were shown the one flying the plastic Spitfire! Phil B

[Tom Morgan]

Phil - I was listening to a radio programme in the car not long ago. It was about the last World Cup tournament in Italy. The programme said that the vast majority of reporter/sound man/cameraman teams sent there were news teams, not sports teams. They were sent to report on the fans, not the matches.

The presenter mentioned the boredom experienced by lots of news teams hanging around downtown piazzas each evening waiting for trouble which didn't happen. He said that one night a fan threw a plastic chair and it made worldwide news.

Tom

[BeppoSapone]

Spitfires and Nazi salutes aside the attitude reminds me more of WW1 then WW2.

From my window I can see English flags hanging from about half a dozen windows in this street, and little flags on cars beside the kerb.

The cheers coming from a local pub, with large screen, when England scored could be heard the other end of the High Street.

All we need is Horatio Bottomley and the women with white feathers.

Have we found the cure for cancer? No, its just 11 overpaid clowns kicking a bag of wind about.

[Owen D]

Quote"From my window I can see English flags hanging from about half a dozen windows in this street, and little flags on cars beside the kerb."

As well as FOUR England flags on my house I also have a Ghana flag.

At work the other night I wore a Ghana top to watch their game. Paid my £1 to charity.

My mate in Ghana is wearing a England top to support us and wave our flag for our games.

It's just a bit of fun every four years.

[BeppoSapone]

Quote"From my window I can see English flags hanging from about half a dozen windows in this street, and little flags on cars beside the kerb."

As well as FOUR England flags on my house I also have a Ghana flag.

At work the other night I wore a Ghana top to watch their game. Paid my £1 to charity.

My mate in Ghana is wearing a England top to support us and wave our flag for our games.

It's just a bit of fun every four years.

It bores me rigid. However, as long as 'a bit of fun every four years' is all that is all it remains, good luck to you.

This is Gareth Southgate's home town, and I remember people threatening to smash his parents windows when he missed that shot at goal.

For some it is somewhat more than 'fun' methinks.

[gporta]

(...) Combine this with the belief that young Brits abroad have a kind of tribal right to insult the natives of whatever country they are in, and there you have it. (...)

Which always happens to puzzle the locals... English may be the most studied language world-wide, so I wonder if this segment of British tourists (fortunately, only a percentage of them) are aware that their insults are understood by many a native who receives it (who politely pretend they didn't hear).

BTW, someone can explain me why tourists in Barcelona buy and wear Mexican hats ?! We locals are very puzzled about the fact.

Gloria

[Sgt_Hazell_Great_Grandson]

Scenes on TV yesterday of some vapid British football fans taunting the Germans with plastic Spitfires and Nazi salutes. First reaction was embarrassment. Second was to wonder why it`s always WW2 that is referred to and never WW1. Is it just that WW2 is easier to parody or has WW1 slipped out of the current football yob`s memory (or never been in it)? Phil B

Most of these " yobs "will be back behind their desks doing their well paid jobs in a few weeks , sorting out our bank loans , chasing our taxes , maybe even sitting on councils ( ). As to the reason of using WW2 rather than copy WW1 just refer to your t.v. Allo allo , Secret Army , Dads Army etc etc , all about WW2.

Roland.

[Steven Broomfield]

BTW, someone can explain me why tourists in Barcelona buy and wear Mexican hats ?! We locals are very puzzled about the fact.

Gloria

Probably because they don't realise that Spain and Mexico are different places

[Guest KevinEndon]

how do you stereotype the Kaiser very difficult but a little man with a funny little moustache and a funny wave easy. How difficult it would be to make a bi-plane but how easy to make a spitfire. As for the pair going together at a football match typical of the minority of the English fans.

I bet though its not long before Chris bins this thread.

[Steven Broomfield]

Most of these " yobs "will be back behind their desks doing their well paid jobs in a few weeks ,, maybe even sitting on councils ( ).

Roland.

I can confirm:

a. That sitting on Councils is not well-paid (well, not for me it isn't)

and

b. That this Councillor is not making any ostentatious displays of nationalism. Well, i did print a small Paraguay flag and stick it in my window on Saturday to irritate the neighbours, but I think the only one who sawit was too dim to relaise what it was.

Patriot, yes...nationalist...no.

[PhilB]

How would you react if the fans sang "Tipperary"? Phil B

[Andrew Hesketh]

It's not just us though. I read a report in a paper the other day - can't remember which, probably Independent or Guardian - that many Dutch fans are wearing orange t-shirts emblazoned with the question, "Can we have our bicycles back?".

[wilkokcl]

Is it just that WW2 is easier to parody or has WW1 slipped out of the current football yob`s memory (or never been in it?

Basil Fawlty and that episode.

When I was at university a fellow student (I kid you not) did not know there had been a First World War and thought there was just "The war" against Nazis etc. Unbelievable!

Mark.

[HarryBettsMCDCM]

With modern teaching & curriculum I would be most surprised if many if any of the "Football Yobs" even realise that WW1 ever happened,& that most only know WW2 happened because they can play it on "Medal of Honour" on PS2,as for the Boer,Crimea & Napoleonic Wars,'woz that when when the Dinosaurs woz abart?'

WW2 Their Dads or Grandads would have been in it,it is within personal recollection

WW1 Wots a Great Great Grandfather???

[J T Gray]

It's not just us though. I read a report in a paper the other day - can't remember which, probably Independent or Guardian - that many Dutch fans are wearing orange t-shirts emblazoned with the question, "Can we have our bicycles back?".

Huh! Can't even read German! It actually reads "Where is my bike?". Scroll down this one to find one modelled by a forumite...

http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/i...opic=53089&st=0

I believe that Dutch have been doing this for years, and no-one seems to mind. Mind you, having seen things like the Orange tent at the Winter Olympics I do get the impression that if they go anywhere with a bit of vertical relief, they get all hill-happy and go quite nutty. Or maybe that's what the meeja want us to think?

Adrain

[Andrew Hesketh]

OK. So I hadn't read that thread!

Sorry.

Coat. Door. Walk......

[Piscator]

Thank goodness its only every 4 years (only!!!!!!) boring, boring. wheres me fishing rod?

Len

[auchonvillerssomme]

Its simply that spitfires are easier to make than biplanes. Less plastic and no fiddly bits.

[Dragon]

spitfires ... Less plastic and no fiddly bits.

Mine was all plastic and had a lot of fiddly bits. When I'd finished it I hung it from the ceiling in my bedroom and played Battle of Britains with my Dad's Avro Anson.

Misty eyed Gwyn

[J T Gray]

OK. So I hadn't read that thread!

Sorry.

Coat. Door. Walk......

Hang the coat back up mate, it's the "educated" and "informed" journos I was taking a pot at!

Adrian

[HarryBettsMCDCM]

Mine {Spitfire} was all plastic. When I'd finished it I hung it from the ceiling in my bedroom and played Battle of Britains with my Dad's Avro Anson.

A touch of sad irony there Gwyn,as the RAF Fighters; on @ least one occasion shot down an unarmed Avro Anson mistaking it for a German Raider,in the opening days of the B~o~B

[BeppoSapone]

BTW, someone can explain me why tourists in Barcelona buy and wear Mexican hats ?! We locals are very puzzled about the fact.

Gloria

Forget the Mexican hats. Why do they bring back those donkeys that dispense cigarettes? Even if I smoked I think it would put me off.

The same for the "Belgian Boy" drink dispensers, based on the well known Brussels statue.

[Guest KevinEndon]

Spitfires easier to make, huh dont make me larffffff, I am 40 now and still have a little grey fighter pilot superglued to the inside of my thigh from when I had got it originally stuck to my finger, shook it so violently that it flew through the air in a major panic thus having the little grey blighter landing on my lap where it has been for 28 years. I have searched every where for a plastic surgeon who will shift it but they never get round to it due to laaughing at me.