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Essexboy68

WW1 veterans Who Served in WW2

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John Robert OSBORN born 2 Jan 1899.

Served RNVR in WW1 (I must get around to looking up his service details)

19 December 1941 (2 weeks short of his 43rd birthday) as Company Sergeant-Major 1st Battalion Winnipeg Grenadiers captured and temporarily held Mount Butler, Hong Kong. Later KIA by throwing himself on an incoming grenade. Victoria Cross gazetted 2 April 1946.

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I haven't carried out detailed analysis, but a quick look through Douglas Morris' LSGC Medals to all RN & RM branches shows probably the majority that were awarded bars for additional service (ie 30+years) put in service in both World Wars.

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BeppoSapone
John Robert OSBORN born 2 Jan 1899.

Served RNVR in WW1 (I must get around to looking up his service details)

19 December 1941 (2 weeks short of his 43rd birthday) as Company Sergeant-Major 1st Battalion Winnipeg Grenadiers captured and temporarily held Mount Butler, Hong Kong. Later KIA by throwing himself on an incoming grenade. Victoria Cross gazetted 2 April 1946.

I think that I read that the Canadian Brigadier who was killed at Hong Kong was a WW1 veteran

Here are Brigadier Lawson's CWGC details:

http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_detail...asualty=2221224

Can someone please post the link to the CEF papers online? I have just had to re-format my hard drive and have lost all my bookmarks!

Steve Broomfield has mentioned the WW1 Australian VC who went missing in Malaya. There was also a British VC, who won his VC as a Sgt on 14th October 1918, and became an officer in the Pioneer Corps in WW2.

In 1940 he was part of the escort taking internees from England to Australia on the "Dunera". These internees were very badly treated by the armed guard, beaten up and robbed etc. The WW1 VC winner played a leading role in this and, I have read, escaped a C/M solely because of his VC. He died in England in 1942, aged 45 and still in the army.

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Andrew Browne CUNNINGHAM, Viscount Cunningham of Hyndhope

Queen’s South Africa: Diamond Hill, Belfast, Cape Colony and Orange Free State clasps.

Distinguished Service Order 2 bars 1914-1915 Star trio etc.

Commander-in-chief, Mediterranean, 1939–1942, ended up as First sea lord, 1943–1946

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snavek

Edmund Ironside, 2nd Lt. R.A. 1899--C.I.G.S. 1939-40.

Keith

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HarryBettsMCDCM
Bear in mind that a man who served in 1916 at 19 would have been 42 in 1939

Notwithstanding that many consripts of 1918,would have been barely 18,thus just 39 in 1939,I think you may find more "Rankers" being holders of the BWM & Victory in WW2 than 1914 or 14/15 Star holders,especially in the RASC,RE & similar Technical Branches

One such recipient was a Pte W.P.Skillington RFC,a former Stamford Grammar School Boy,who had enlised in to the Flying Corps in 1917,serving in France,post War he had a job @ RAF Peterborough as a civilian Clerk & presumably felt set for his working life,only to have it interupped by WW2,finding he couldn't continue in his employ,unless he enlisted into the RAF,which he did,being immediately made up to Sergeant;being posted to Canada,as well as serving in Lincolnshire & @ RAF Peterborough,as well as being Mentioned in Dispatches on two occasions.

His Medals are BWM 1914~20;Allied Victory Medal 1914~19;Defence Medal 1939~45 & Briish War Medal 1939~45 With MiD Oak Leaf Emblem

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Glosters

example from my collection: Lt-Colonel Hilton-Green, DSO, MC. Very unusual group to an army officer :)

Steve

post-1286-1148143103.jpg

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nfh249
example from my collection: Lt-Colonel Hilton-Green, DSO, MC. Very unusual group to an army officer :)

Now there is an interesting question I'd never thought about before, assuming those medals are in the correct order, why do the WW1 medals take precedence over the WW2 ones? In all the pre-WW2 mixed groups I've seen on here the WW1 medals take precedence over say the Boer War medals so I assumed that WW2 would come before the WW1 medals...?

Regards,

Neil

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HarryBettsMCDCM
Now there is an interesting question I'd never thought about before, assuming those medals are in the correct order, why do the WW1 medals take precedence over the WW2 ones? In all the pre-WW2 mixed groups I've seen on here the WW1 medals take precedence over say the Boer War medals so I assumed that WW2 would come before the WW1 medals...

The Group is in correct order.

I can only assume that the groups you have seen have been incorrectly mounted or displayed; Campaign Medals are mounted in order of Campaign,the earliest first{However,Foreign War Medals{eg: Khedive's Stars Sudan Medals,Etc Are worn after Foreign Orders,themselves worn after UK Awards}Thus in a Boer War Group the Queen's South Africa is worn first followed by the King's Medal,the 1914 Star,War Medal & Lastly Victory Medal,followed by any Long Service Awards.It is true that later awarded Higher Class Decorations or Orders are worn @ the head of a Group,in Order of importance; regardless of when awarded,due to the official Order of Wearing such awards{eg: A WW2 MC,or OBE, would preceed a WW1 MM or DCM,as a WW2 DSO would preceed a WW1 MC}

If one followed the logic of later awards mounted first,then the Star would be proceeded by the War & then Victory Medal{ie reverse order}I can't say Ive seen any mounted as you describe

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nfh249
Campaign Medals are mounted in order of Campaign,the earliest first{However,Foreign War Medals{eg: Khedive's Stars Sudan Medals,Etc Are worn after Foreign Orders,themselves worn after UK Awards}Thus in a Boer War Group the Queen's South Africa is worn first followed by the King's Medal,the 1914 Star,War Medal & Lastly Victory Medal,followed by any Long Service Awards.It is true that later awarded Higher Class Decorations or Orders are worn @ the head of a Group,in Order of importance; regardless of when awarded,due to the official Order of Wearing such awards{eg: A WW2 MC,or OBE, would preceed a WW1 MM or DCM,as a WW2 DSO would preceed a WW1 MC}

Thanks for that, that clears it up nicely!

If one followed the logic of later awards mounted first,then the Star would be proceeded by the War & then Victory Medal{ie reverse order}I can't say Ive seen any mounted as you describe

I was meaning seeing a WW1 trio Star, BWM, VM followed by the QSA and KSA medals, but I guess they were mounted incorrectly?

Neil.

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Sparky53

post-4960-1148151626.jpgMy Grandpa A. P. Spark had the 1915 star etc, and also the WW2 defence medal.

I think the defence medal was for running first aid posts in the UK

Jane

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aliecoco

Hi,

My Great Uncle George Cameron served during WW1 and WW2, he finally retired in 1955 I think?! I don't have his notes immediately to hand, but he served with the 6th HLI during WW1, and I have yet to discover more on his WW2 service. I do have a brief record and believe he was in Malta.

He died in his nineties, during the early 1990's and I remember him well. What a life he had! Most interesting, and my son is named after him.

Alie.

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Guest David/Murle Parish
Folks

I have been puzzling over this question for some time now, my interest having been aroused by a number of things, such as an interview with a (now sadly deceased) WW1 veteran who claimed to have been turned down for service in WW2 on age grounds (he would have been about 41 in 1939) & also the ages of reservists, both ex-regular & voluntary who have been mobilised in recent years.

Basically, what percentage of those men who had served in WW1 during their teens & early 20s went on to serve in WW2, whether as regulars, recalled reservists, TA or even as volunteers for Hostilities Only engagements? I know that today it is possible to serve as a reguar until age 55 (in the RAF) & many FTRS personnel serve until 60 & the TAVR, RNR & RauxAF take men well into their 40's on enlistment.

I am intrigued as it seems only 2 of the known surviving WW1 British veterans served in WW2, namely Bill Stone (regular RN) & Kenneth Cummins (WW1 RN Midshipman, WW2 MN officer). I am aware that Philip Mayne & Henry Allingham were in Reserved occupations (Mr Allingham was involved in mine countermeasure work, I understand) & that Albert "Smiler" Marshall (sadly no longer with us) lost an eye in early 1939, rendering him unfit on medical grounds.

Also, would it be prudent to say that the number of those WW1 veterans who survived into old age was artifically low due to some being killed in WW2?

As an aside, I know that the CO of a TA RA unit was sent home from North Africa in WW2 as he was deemed too old for active service, allegedly after an inspecting officer had recognised his Boer War campaign medals!!! I also seem to remember reading that there was a 60+ RSM serving in North Africa, but not sure if he was a regular or reservist.

Look forward to your replies Pals.

Mark

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Guest David/Murle Parish

My father, Charles Parish, turned 18 in 1914 and joined up with the British Army - date not yet clear. He served in France and possibly other locations with RFA. I am still searching for details.

He emigrated to Australia in 1923 and worked at a range of occupations including farm labourer, lay preacher, share farmer. Along the way he met and married my mother - 1935 and had two children, of whom I am the younger.

With the outbreat of WW2 he reduced his age by 10 years and enlisted in the AIF. He saw service in the Middle East before some in-Australia postings, reaching the rank of Sergeant. He was discharged on medical grounds in 1944 and after a long medical battle he succumbed in 1957.

With best wishes on your quest

David Parish

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Gibbo

I was at the Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders Museum at Stirling Castle yesterday. One of the exhibits is a picture of 17 officers of the 2nd Battalion taken just before the Battle of Le Cateau. 6 of them were killed in it & 2 others later died of wounds received there. Astonishingly, it appears that the other 9 all survived the war, although a couple of the captions were a little vague over later careers. 4 of the 9 served in WW2.

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Rob B

Glosters,

A quick flash back to the impressive DSO, MC group how did he qualifie for the Atlantic Star was he marines on convoys? Just don't get many soldiers with that.

Cheers,

Rob

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Glosters

Rob,

He was Gloucestershire Regiment. Recalled from Reserve of Officers and appointed to Troopship duties.

Steve

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eviltaxman

Lt Col Daniel Burges VC "re-joined" the Glosters during WW2 as a Recruitment Officer. Although a civvie, he wore full dress uniform when doing tours of the local factories.

I've done some research on Burges (as some of you may be aware) and although in strictness he's entitled to the War Medal & Defence Medal for 39-45, he died in October 1946 and these medals were not issued in retrospect to civilians. Bit of a b@gger really - he's got 10 medals to his name and 2 more would make the set more impressive.

Les

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