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Research Help WW1 Brothers


Steve Bramley

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A lady who lives near myself had two uncles killed in the first war. The First Pte.E.V.Marshall was killed at Grandcourt 18/11/16, 37175 8th Bat. Glos Reg. And is detailed on the CWGC website.

Of the other P.Marshall, no records can be found. His service number was 904182 and he was a private. The lady is in posession of a Canadian Memorial Cross with his name and number on the reverse.

Does anyone know why his NOK would receive a Memorial Cross? The Brothers lived in Grimsby.

Is there any significance in his service number?

Is he likely to have died at home of wounds received after the war had ended?

Any suggestions or clues in researching P.Marshall would be greatly appreciated.

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If you go to this site you can see his attestation papers. He joined the Canadian Expeditionary Force in February, 1916. I am pretty sure it's the right man because I searched for him using the number you gave. He was living in Alberta at the time.

Tom

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Thanks a lot Tom,

That certainly looks promising! Barton-on-Humber is close to Grimsby. His Brother

lived in Patrick Street Grimsby as is stated on the CWGC info'. The same address is written inside the medal case of Pte.P (Percy?). Unfortunately (Edith) Vera the lady who asked for the information knows very little about him. She was given the medal by the brothers mother. It looks like he P. (Percy) must have emigrated?

These medals were only awarded to the NOK of Canadians- is that correct?

Is his service number a canadian one?

Once again thanks v.much, any other ideas would be great.

P.S. visited your website several times in the past-excellent stuff.

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David_Bluestein

The award of the Canadian Memorial Cross was continued right through the years after the Great War, and still to this day for old soldiers who a/ died of war related wounds or b/ were still attached in some manner to a military unit etc.

So it is not a guarantee with a Memorial Cross that the recipient was killed or died during the war. This soldiers service records from the National Archives in Ottawa Canada should reveal the details of his death with a date etc. (A clue to when the issue was awarded is by the King or Queens monogram on the face of the cross)

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Thank you David,

The monogram on the cross is that of George V, so it could have been awarded anytime between 1914 and 1936 if i understand correctly. I'll have to take a look at the Canadian archive site, is this the same one that Tom Morgan visited?

Thanks for your help.

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Hi Steve:

If you go to this site you'll find information on ordering a Canadian soldiers complete file from the National Archive of Canada. It costs about $20.00 Canadian (£8.75) and you should receive the package in 5 to 6 weeks.

Garth

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Many thanks Garth,

I think writing for the records is the obvious next step.

I've been talking with the lady today. The only doubt remaining is according to P.Marshalls' assestation papers (which Tom Morgan kindly directed me to) he was born in Barton upon Humber. Although coincidently, she did have relations there!

There were five sons in the Marshall family,four of which served, Herbert who survived was (she thinks) in the Grimsby Chums (10th Lincolns) I'll have to try and find out! The youngest brother, her father, sadly was lost while serving on a Grimsby trawler in 1944, along with both of his next door neighbours.

Thanks again,

Steve.

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Steve,

If you got to:-

www.ellisisland.org

you may well be able to find out when he emigrated.

Roy

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Obliged Roy,

A few 'Percys' on the site, although nothing definate> i havn't enough info' to be certain.

A very interesting site though, i spent longer than i wanted on it!

Cheers,

Steve.

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One Found, Two Found (I'm almost certain)

Thank you all for your help.

The attestation papers link provided by Tom allowed me to check out the Edmonton Council's website list of cemeteries. In Edmonton cemetery lies Percy Marshall d.5/9/1923. Also in the same plot is Mary Marshall d.2/11/1972. This was his wifes' name given on the papers. Someone from the Canadian archive site is in the process of checking his service records for me. The Barton-on-Humber connection is still puzzling me, so i'll have to search locally to be absolutely 100%.

I'm stunned by the enthusiasm and depth of knowledge of the people on this site,

as i'm hoping to follow both mens service history, i'll know where to come for more details!

Once again many thanks for your fantastic help.

Yours

Steve.

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  • 1 year later...
toofatfortakeoff

No Marshalls listed in the Barton Town war list-unusual, as it is a Barton name.

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Steve

Per the 1901 Census Index the family are living at Clee, Grimsby, Lincolnshire as follows:

Wm Marshall aged 50 years, Born Louth Lincolnshire, Tailor

Sarah Marshall aged 48 years

Thomas Marshall, aged 22 years, born Barton, Lincolnshire, Tailor *

George Marshall, aged 15 years, born Barton, Lincolnshire

Percy Marshall, aged 12 years, born Barton, Lincolnshire

Joseph Marshall, aged 10 years, born Barton, Lincolnshire

Walter Marshall, aged 6 years, born Barton, Lincolnshire

Ernest Marshall, aged 4 years, born Barton, Lincolnshire

In 1881 the same family were living in Marsh Lane, Barton St Mary, Lincolnshire as follows:

Wm Marshall, aged 27 years, born Thrumpton, Nottingham, Tailor (Head) *

Sarah J Marshall, aged 26 years, born Winterton, Lincoln (Wife)

Herbert Marshall, aged 8 years, born Barton, Lincon (Son)

Jno. Wm Marshall, aged 6 years, born Barton, Lincoln (Son)

Elizth Marshall, aged 5 years, born Barton, Lincoln (Dau)

Charles E Marshall, aged 3 years, born Barton, Lincoln (Son)

Thomas Marshall, aged 2 years, born Barton, Lincoln (Son)

* Different place of birth in each Census

Couldn't find Herbert in 1901 but think that Jno Wm was living in Cleethorpes, Lincs and was a plumber and that Charles was Living in Sunderland, Durham and was a Tailors Cutter.

I'm not sure if this hinders or help as it would seem that there were 9 sons if this is right. To confirm the relationships per the 1901 Census you would need to load down the actual Census Page as the index does not show this.

As Ernest Victor Marshall is commemorated on the Thiepval Memorial and we were visiting the Memorial today we took the liberty of taking a photo of his name whic was on panel 5A. If you would like us to send you a copy drop us an email and we'll send it when we return.

Ken and Pam Linge

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Dear Ken and Pam,

How thoughtful of you, thanks very much for clearing up the Barton link for me and taking the photograph. I would like to take up your offer of the photograph and will e-mail you directly.

Ernest Victor was originally a member of the 5th Battalion Lincolnshire Regiment, posted along with a draft of other 5th Lincolns to the 8th Gloucestershires in 1916 probably to replace casualties from the action at La Boiselle on July 3rd of that year.

I will pass a copy on to Edith Vera, i'm sure she and her family will be most interested.

Best Regards,

Steve :)

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I'm not sure if this hinders or help as it would seem that there were 9 sons if this is right.  To confirm the relationships per the 1901 Census you would need to load down the actual Census Page as the index does not show this.

Happy to oblige:

Family members

William (50), Sarah Jane (48, wife), Thomas (22, Son), George Frederick (15, Son), Percy (12, Son), Joseph Henry (10, Son), Walter (6, Son), Ernest (4, Son). All sons, no daughters.

Living at 116 Heulage? Street, William and Thomas were both tailors.

Herbert (age 28) was in Lincoln in 1901, a joiner (at 14 or maybe 16 St Nicholas Street) in the Lincoln Castle district, with his wife Minnie (30) and daughter Ethel (1)

I can also confirm Charles E Marshall (23) as a Tailor's cutter boarding at 65 Farham Street, Sunderland and John W Marshall (26) as a plumber in Cleethorpes.

1891 Census

Marsh Lane, Barton St Mary,

William Marshall (38, Tailor, born Thrumpton), Sarah Jane Marshall (36, born Winterton), Herbert (18, Moulders apprentice), John Wm (16, Tailors App.), Charles Edward (13, Tailors App.), Thomas (12), Betsy (6), George (4) and Percy (1).

Hope this helps,

Steve

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Great Stuff Steve,

Thanks for your effort.

That would be 116 Heanage Street, there is also a Heanage Road in Grimsby, both named after a Lord Heanage.

Regards,

Steve.

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