Jump to content
Free downloads from TNA ×
The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Remembered Today:

Strange Occurrences on the Western Front


Rodge Dowson

Recommended Posts

About 15 years ago I read the history of the SSU (American Field Ambulance). I distinctly remembered reading of the death of Paul Gannett Osborne. Anyhow a year or so later whilst visiting the Marne I went to one is the U.S. cemeteries near Fere En Tardenois and randomly zig zagged across the lines of graves before randomly stopping at the back of one (no markings to be seen) went to the front and it was his grave. Pure chance, nothing more.

TT

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hope you went straight off and bought a lottery ticket! What are the odds/how many are buried in that cemetery?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sorry to gate-crash the thread (which I follow and quite enjoy whilst being pretty sceptical), but I noticed the 1st/4th King's Own connection here - could either IRC Kevin or Canadian J PM me details of what the battalion was up to on 20 November 1917? Whilst not directly involved in Cambrai they had numerous casualties that day, a great deal of whom are missing. I'm researching an officer called Dartnall in particular. Thanks and again, sorry to go off-topic.

- brummell

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sorry to gate-crash the thread (which I follow and quite enjoy whilst being pretty sceptical), but I noticed the 1st/4th King's Own connection here - could either IRC Kevin or Canadian J PM me details of what the battalion was up to on 20 November 1917? Whilst not directly involved in Cambrai they had numerous casualties that day, a great deal of whom are missing. I'm researching an officer called Dartnall in particular. Thanks and again, sorry to go off-topic.

- brummell

Albert Dartnall KIA during the attack at Gillemont Farm on 20 November. If you want to PM me your e-mail address I'll send you the relevant part of that chapter.

regards,

Kevin

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm personally sceptical regarding ghosts, spirits and what have you, although I've had a few "unexplainables" myself (irrelevant to the forum and this thread). But I nevertheless love a good ghost story, especially if it touches the heart as well as the small hairs on the neck.

So thank you to all contributors!

/Dan

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I guess for those that have had experiences, the frustration is that there generally is not much supporting evidence and what evidence does exist such as photographs is open to interpretation. Of the unexplained personal experiences of mine I no longer try to explain or to convince others, I merely tell the story as a story, and leave it to the listener to accept, reject or offer solutions.

I have visited many famous 'haunted ' locations worldwide as well as battlefields and apart from my wife and I seeing a solitary confederate soldier at Antietam, seated writing, with his back against a tree (re-enactor?) no one else around??, I have never had an experience at any of them that I am aware of.

khaki

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...

One of those odd but true coincidences, I visit a huge civilian graveyard in another country, why ? because I found out that despite me staying ten minutes from there that a g/uncle of mine , a GW veteran was buried in the veterans section, after some searching I found his grave, he died July 1940,

Glancing around I noticed a Boer War veterans grave being the second grave to the right from my g/uncle, the occupant of that grave was my great grandmothers brother died in 1940 one month later.

Despite both men being related to me, they were not related to each other, both were born and lived 100's miles apart and I have no reason to believe that they ever met or even knew of each other.

there are some things that will always remain a mystery.

khaki

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wow Khaki, not bad!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A couple of years ago I finally, after over 20 years of driving past the Botley Road cemetry, decided to visit it as it was signposted as a CWGC. Having looked at both the Commonwealth and German graves my Good Lady commented that one grave had an airman called Bolger which was an unusual name and she had only seen it once before and it was her mothers family.

So the fact that she comes from New zealand (where her family still live) I believe the fact that this is her Uncle is a little bit unusual. He died of wounds on his return from a bombing raid over Germany and was treated at Botley Hospital and now resides 6 miles from our home. Needless to say he now benifits from a visit every ANZAC Day after we have been to Bulford to clean the KIWI and a new cross is placed on his grave and his memory kept strong.

I shall get her to pick the lottery numbers from now on i think!

Rod

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

Over the years I've visited every CWGC cemetery in the Somme area including those actually located in the Pas de Calais region such as Gommecourt. On no occasion did I ever feel threatened, watched or the slightest bit uneasy but remain open minded to those who do.

I will be making my third visit this year to the Somme on 26 October 2015 taking a group of Army Cadets and their officers. I had thought, weather permitting, of a walk from Mametz up Death/Happy Valley passing the Welsh Dragon, Mametz Wood, Flat Iron Copse and re-joining the coach just outside Bazentin. Could be interesting given the extensive mention of Mametz Wood on earlier posts!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

sounds great, Joe.... may I ask which unit you're taking??

Asking because I know lot of their teams doing the Nijmegen marches and Cosford... might meet them on the road next year ! Or they might already have met the Belgian Walking Bear !!

M.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I very much enjoyed seeing this thread.

I have had quite a few similar occurrences on the Western Front that I personally have no scepticism left. I believe that if it is true for me - then it is true. We go to the cemeteries and I feel like a time traveller - experiencing I believe some ( and thankfully not all!) of the feelings of those who have gone before or even being a recipient of communications.

My wife and I also visited Mametz and stood just above the Welsh Dragon. I am Welsh. it was a beautiful sunny day in early September . Then we went down towards the woods. Pausing to take in the scene a large Owl then appeared in broad daylight demarking a line at right angles between us and the wood halfway across the newly ploughed field.

We both felt that this was a clear message saying - don't go any further- as if to say- you do not want to go any further. We heeded our feelings and stopped in our tracks. The feelings were virtually tangible - apprehension; amazement ;surprise - to mention a few.

Generally as others mention - a lovely sense of calm can exist - accentuated in some cemeteries - eg Hospital Farm

Others - such as Tyne Cot - the reverse - I can best describe as shards of glass . I found the German cemetery at Fricourt equally disturbing.

On one occasion - when our daughter now 30 was about 11 - she was in a frontline pillbox in Vimy Ridge, and reported that she had been told to leave it - as it was not a place for her.- There was no-one about.

My view is that there are a lot of spirits/souls still about - some not content quite obviously. Most people have some ability to " tap into " the sense of there being something there. Some people are a lot more tuned in than others. I am quite a novice I think.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 6 months later...
  • 1 month later...
On 4/26/2011 at 16:18, Ianto said:

hello all - first poster here ..

Up until last week all i knew about my Great Uncle was that he died at Mametz Wood in 1916.

On a recent family trip to France I realised I was nearby and so I took my 11yr old daughter & 14yr old son to Mametz Wood last week for out first visit to see where my Great Uncle, Private Charles Harris (16th Btn Welsh) died on 7th July 1916.

We were the only ones there on a lovely hot day and off we wandered into the woods (directly opposite the Dragon).

We explored it all and I even in a moment of quiet said (out loud) a small personal prayer to him.

We had a great time exploring and mentally positioning machine gun posts - attackers etc in order that they try to understand a small bit of what it was like.

We were so taken with the place that 2 days later we returned for more exploring and found bits of shell casings much to my childrens delight.

On return to the UK I did a bit more research (with plenty more to do) and have ordered the book "Up to Mametz" to better understand.

I can honestly say there was not one ounce of malevolence or bad feeling when we were there - we are all genuinely shocked to read some of this thread and how Mametz has such a reputation.

My daughter said Charles was looking over us - bless her !

All I currently know about Charles Harris is his name, rank and number from CWGC - I know there are loads of resources about but any ones you recommend ?

Thanks

Ian

 

Well, 5 years on I am booked to return to Mametz Wood next week (prob 21st/22nd) with my now 16 year old daughter. I am already filled with dread having re-read this thread !

 

I have since found out that my Great Uncle died as a Private having weeks previously been a Sgt - imagine mine and my daughter's horror to read his war record (at Kew last year) and see him court martialled, because whilst a machine gun instructor he left a class of recruits with a gun with one up the spout - result = one death of a recruit :-(

Punishment = straight to the front.

 

I aim to find a descendant of the victim and apologise on his behalf - anyone think thats not ok ?

 

Ps.. have you watched Gareth Thomas prog on Mametz Wood ? Still on the BBC iplayer.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

In her book, Army Wives, Midge Gillies writes..

 

"After his son was killed in 1915, Sir Oliver Lodge, a pioneer in wireless telegraphy, wrote a book describing how he had got in touch with him through a medium. By the end of the First World War there were said to be 4.5m bereaved relations in Britain, and some 250,000 were attending seances to make contact with their dead sons and husbands. One of these was the engaging and bookish Clare Sheridan, who discovered a medium in Notting Hill soon after the death of her husband, Wilfred, a captain in the Rifle Brigade. On her first visit, she spoke to him for half an hour. The conversations continued until the day he objected to her plans to move to Turkey, after which, affronted by his bossiness, she ceased communication."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On Saturday, July 09, 2016 at 23:04, Ianto said:

I aim to find a descendant of the victim and apologise on his behalf - anyone think thats not ok ?

 

Well there's nothing wrong in expressing sympathy, but I don't see how you can apologize for something that you didn't do to someone who wasn't the victim of an action that occurred long before you were born.

 

Undelivered apologies do not pass down the generations in your DNA.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Interesting that Mametz Wood continues to intrigue visitors, and feature large in this thread. I wrote much earlier here of how I experienced a profound sense of malevolence when I first stepped into the fringe of the Hammerhead back in 2003, and of how subsequent visits have been far more benign. I now feel that, like David Jones's female presence, who appears variously as mother/madre, the Queen of the Woods, or Sweet Sister Death, the wood can exhibit quite different characteristics. Perhaps she needs to know that she can trust you. I certainly cannot but feel that I was quietly taken by the hand and gently pointed in the right direction a couple of weeks ago, when I was endeavouring the illustrate a passage from 'In Parenthesis' -

 

'Dark faceted iron oval lobs heavily into fungus cushioned dank, close to where the heel drew out just now etc...'

 

Hand grenades are of course quite liberally scattered amongst the fields of The Somme, but I don't care much to handle them, so for this particular effort I reluctantly engaged in necessary deceit. With the help of Avril Williams, who very kindly lent me a suitably benign bomb, I headed along the edge of Strip Trench looking for some suitable 'dank'. Thinking that I had found a pleasant spot to begin, I looked down at my feet and there, amongst the leaves and twigs, was a piece of dried boot heel leather! But it didn't end there. Last autumn I had walked along the fringe of the wood in the Wood Support/Strip Trench area looking vaguely and without the slightest expectation of success, for a 'bright stone'. There was of course, no stone, just the gently falling leaves. So, to return to my last visit, with Mills grenade and boot leather in hand, and some photographs stored in camera,  I carried on along the edge of the wood in the direction of Wood Support, when I suddenly almost fell over... a white stone, positioned I would wager very, very close to the turn of Wood Support.

 

'You drag past the four bright stones at the turn of Wood Support'

 

I really do feel that fate, or the ghosts, perhaps even the elusive Queen of the Woods, was looking over my shoulder, and I only hope that I am not betraying this kindness by writing this, and that my efforts, shown here, repayed such otherwise unaccountable generosity.

 

20160803_0267_1024.jpg

 

20160803_0297_1024.jpg

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 10/07/2016 at 00:04, Ianto said:

I aim to find a descendant of the victim and apologise on his behalf - anyone think thats not ok ?

 

I understand the sentiment but agree with daibach - also, the "victim's" family may believe that their ancestor died fighting at the front rather than as the result of a stupid accident in training.

I think they may prefer to be able to continue in that belief rather than know he was the victim of a series of "mistakes". I wonder what happened to the man who actually pulled the trigger... sadly we know what happened to the others involved.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...

Here's a thought-provoking article on "infrasound":

 

"Infrasound, sometimes referred to as low-frequency sound, is sound that is lower in frequency than 20 Hz (hertz) or cycles per second, the "normal" limit of human hearing [...]

 

"One study has suggested that infrasound may cause feelings of awe or fear in humans. It has also been suggested that since it is not consciously perceived, it may make people feel vaguely that odd or supernatural events are taking place."

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infrasound

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The first time my wife went to the Somme we were driving through the Somme in very thick fog when she suddenly went all colours of green and white, almost ejecting her breakfast in the process. Laughed about it being my driving, checked she was OK and it passed as quickly as it had come on, so wrote it off to her balance being disoriented by the fog or something similar. Pulled over half a mile further along to let her settle down and realised it was as we passed High Wood / London Cemetery. Shared what I knew about the wood, took the mickey a little (being the sensitive soul that I am) and carried on.

 

Some years later I did her family tree for her (as her father's side was a complete unknown to her). Turned out her 18 year old Uncle was killed in High Wood in the Londons. No known grave so is not (knowingly) among those in the London Cemetery.

 

Interesting coincidence ... 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Steve, thanks for sharing, my wife experienced an odd event to the west of High Wood hearing German voices in area of Switch trench.

Tony

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On ‎15‎/‎08‎/‎2016 at 09:49, horrocks said:

 

 

I really do feel that fate, or the ghosts, perhaps even the elusive Queen of the Woods, was looking over my shoulder, and I only hope that I am not betraying this kindness by writing this, and that my efforts, shown here, repayed such otherwise unaccountable generosity.

 

 

 

20160803_0297_1024.jpg

 

 

 

I haven't viewed this topic for quite a while, and it's probably just me, but my eyes were immediately drawn to a miniature simulacra of  a hooded, robed lady overlooking the 'bright stone' (& snail) amongst the tree roots in the background - the elusive Queen of the Woods?

 

NigelS

Link to comment
Share on other sites

More coincidences from me. This March listening to last post Menin Gate I was randomly stood next to a multitude of names to the missing. At or about eye level I realised I was next to T Thurlow, Middlesex Regt. Didn't know he was there and not looking. My initials are TT. Guess what my surname is????

 

On 5/11 this year again walking swiftly through the gate stopped by steps leading to upper panels. Random stop. Found myself looking at A Thurlow.

 

TT

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not on the Western Front but my maiden name/initial was J. Stemp. The first time I went to the Royal Sussex Memorial Chapel in Chichester Cathedral there was a J. Stemp on the third panel I opened. Last time I went there I looked on the other side of the same panel and on the back is a Wickenden (my married name).

Edited by seaJane
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...