clk Posted 31 July , 2015 Share Posted 31 July , 2015 Hi Allison This Topic may be of interest. The war diary entry: 7th Sherwood Foresters, 21st March 1918At 4.56 a.m. the enemy put down a very heavy barrage on the front line system; trench mortars and field artillery continued the bombardment at an intense rate until about 9.45 a.m. At the same time, our battery positions were heavily engaged by the enemy's heavy and field artillery. At 5.05 a.m. communication by wire to Bde. H.Q. was broken; the only message that went through after that was one by pigeon timed about 6 a.m. reporting a heavy bombardment. At about 8 a.m. the shelling, which had been very largely gas, changed to H.E. At about 10 a.m. the barrage was reported to have lifted on to the second system, i.e. it was behind the Battalion. Only 14 men of the Battalion escaped unwounded from the trenches and it appears from their reports that the enemy broke through on both flanks, and, coming round behind the QUEANT-ECOUST railway cut off and completely surrounded the Battalion. This must have been between 9.30 and 10 a.m. Captain H.C. WRIGHT and Lieut. G.W. BLOODWORTH were wounded and escaped; all the other Officers are still missing, with the exception of 2/Lieut. J.L. MOY and 2/Lt. A.G.J. MELHUISH who were reported killed. Owing to this and the capture of all documents at Battalion Headquarters, no accurate or detailed account of the action is possible. During the evening a few men who were not in the trenches were collected by the Brigade H.Q. and sent up to man the Reserve Line of the Third System; the Support Line of the Third System was taken over by the 177th Infantry Brigade, who had been relieved in the firing line of the Third System by the 40th Division. Hopefully this link will take you to a map/overlay for 21st March 1918 at Noreuil. It doesn't show Igarree Corner, but it does appear on the one from 4th July 1918. An initial report of casualties for the period 21st to 31st March 1918 shows over 5000 for the 59th Division. Specifically for the 7th Battalion: Officers - 1 killed, 2 wounded, 22 missing; and Other Ranks - 34 wounded, 580 missing. Regards Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allison01 Posted 31 July , 2015 Share Posted 31 July , 2015 Chris, that is brilliant thank you very much. That account sounds just awful. From what I am reading the losses were horrendous. It's a miracle the line was held at all. Will check that link out now. Thanks again. Allison Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allison01 Posted 31 July , 2015 Share Posted 31 July , 2015 That's fantastic Chris, I now have a rough idea of where I'm looking. Trying to get as close as I can on street view so I can look up towards the german line, not terribly helpful though naturally! if anyone has photos of the area would love to see them. I think I need to take a trip there with an expert, I would be rubbish on my own(I have actually gotten lost on a circular running route ) In the dream I was at the bottom of a not very steep sloping field and their were trees on the horizon to the right, as it got darker the trees were blackened as is familiar in film and photo's of the day. Just putting it out there now in case a familiar location turns up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clk Posted 31 July , 2015 Share Posted 31 July , 2015 No problem Allison. From an R. E. perspective (transcribed from war diary)... Noreuil 21st March 1918.doc From the (albeit limited) research I've done about the missing men of the 470th Field Company, it seems that the majority were taken as PoWs (- including my relative, who died two days later from a leg wound in a German field hospital). I think that this might also be the case for other units that were caught at Noreuil. A couple of photos of men of 7th battalion being inspected by the King a few days after the attack. Regards Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allison01 Posted 31 July , 2015 Share Posted 31 July , 2015 Yes I read the majority were taken prisoner, the statistics are jaw droppingly awful. Thank you for your help today, if you think of a book you could recommend that covers the battle in depth please do let me know. And am I right in thinking Vadencourt and Grand-Seraucourt Cemeteries would be of most interest in relation? Thank you Allison Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myrtle Posted 31 July , 2015 Share Posted 31 July , 2015 Ok it's not the Western Front but as it seems appropriate for this thread please excuse the change of location. I went to Gallipoli last September and while there visited the grave of my grandmother's cousin and the graves of the men who are commemorated on the same War Memorial in Mid Wales. One of these Welshmen, enlisted in Sydney with the 1st Btn. AIF and is listed on one of the Lone Pine panels. With help from one of our guides I found and photographed his name, Cpl T. H. Meredith. A week after I returned home I received a phone call from a gentleman who had been on the Gallipoli tour immediately after mine and had visited Lone Pine with the same guide. He also, was there to take a photograph of Cpl Meredith's inscription ! After exchanging information I found that his great uncle, who was originally from England, had joined up in Sydney, the same time as Meredith. The two men, who were both adventurers, had originally met in Tahiti and then when they met again by chance in Sydney decided to join the army together. His great uncle had survived the war and had written a book about his travels which includes descriptions of Meredith and their adventures. I am pleased to say that I was able to put the great nephew in contact with Cpl. Meredith's great nephew, who lives in Canada, in time for the Gallipoli centenary this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allison01 Posted 31 July , 2015 Share Posted 31 July , 2015 Ooh er! these peculiar coincidences keep cropping up. Life is wonderfully odd at times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clk Posted 31 July , 2015 Share Posted 31 July , 2015 Hi Allison, ...if you think of a book you could recommend that covers the battle in depth please do let me know. Sorry, I can't really recommend anything that gives a detailed account of events at Noreuil on 21st March 1918. There are some passing references in "59th Division 1915 -1918" (Lt.- Col. E.U Bradbridge, et al), "The Kaiser's Battle" (Martin Middlebrook), and from what I recall "To the Last Man" (Lyn MacDonald) - though I lent the latter to someone I used to work with, and never got it back! Hopefully a better read Forum Pal might be able to recommend something. I would love to get hold of something more substantial. ...am I right in thinking Vadencourt and Grand-Seraucourt Cemeteries would be of most interest in relation? If (a very big "if") I've managed to manipulate the CWGC data correctly (caveat - for deaths anywhere in France): Really quite saddening to see the number of commemorations compared to actual known burials. I guess not least in part due to the speed of the German advance during the initial onslaught. Regards Chris EDIT: Clearly I can't count to 10 properly!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allison01 Posted 1 August , 2015 Share Posted 1 August , 2015 Chris, yet again your recommendations and your hard work are wonderfully helpful. You have obviously put a lot of time and effort into your research. Yes it is very sad, as you say it's understandable but a terrible thing. I am still knocked sideways by the numbers involved. Up until now all the family members I have found that were killed on the Western Front have graves. It's only this last few days I have discovered two family members that were among the missing(another at Cambrai). Unimaginably awful for the families, bad enough to have them die but for a loved one to be missing and to spend months wondering if they are still alive somewhere and then I guess the slow, painful acceptance that they are gone but have no grave I don't know how people coped. Thank you again for all your help. Allison Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pugaree Posted 27 August , 2015 Share Posted 27 August , 2015 In January 2013 I was visiting the Adelaide Cemetery near Villers-Bretonneaux specifically to see the former grave of our unknown soldier that was re interred at the Australian War Memorial. I had already in Europe for a month and had taken over 600 photos. I took a photo of the grave and my camera just went dead. I tried everything to get it going again but absolutely no response. Later that night in my hotel room, the camera fired up and reset itself and has worked perfectly ever since. I still find that quite spooky. Incidentally, the tomb of the unknown soldier is a place I often visit just to sit and pay my respects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian J Posted 28 August , 2015 Share Posted 28 August , 2015 (edited) In Nov. 2012, my buddy and I had left Canada to do a pilgrimage of the western front. We met an Australian named Dan (doing the same thing) at Ypres. The 3 of us decided to bicycle the salient over the next 2 days. While on our bicycles, Dan was always easy going and never made decisions, always saying "I'm easy" and never indicated a need to go anywhere in particular until one day we saw a sign - "Dochy Farm Cemetery -->". Dan says "we should try to find it, i've heard that name before, I don't know where from but we should check it out" So we set off looking for it and got lost, we gave up and eventually ended up back on track and visited Tyne Cot and other areas. We were heading back to Ypres, on a different route, as the sun was going down. Then we saw another sign "Dochy Farm Cemetery -->", once again Dan says, "lets just try one more time" which was strange because Dan was so easy going and never really pushed for anything, so we tried again. We found it this time, the sky was picturesque. Dan immediately went to the book of names in the cabinet, and said "My great Uncle is here!", he had no idea he was here, only that the name Dochy Farm was familiar to him for some reason. We found the grave and had a few nice moments. Then Dan said, "Now I don't have to go to Bruges where I thought he was buried!" So we asked Dan if he wanted to join us and so he did, for the next 7 days which turned into a good friendship!... I always found that story very moving, that even though we couldn't find the cemetery the first time and had given up, then, after calling it a day and running out of time were given another random opportunity to find it again... it was almost as if this man wanted to be found and visited. Edited 28 August , 2015 by Canadian J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinBattle Posted 28 August , 2015 Share Posted 28 August , 2015 it was almost as if this man wanted to be found and visited. It really seems so... I've said before about visiting High Wood with a work colleague who had a relative buried there in WW1. Whilst he was paying his respects, I wandered out of the way and stood where I could still see him but at a respectful distance. When he'd finished he came over to me and looked down at the headstone I was standing behind.... He was astonished to see the same family name for a WW2 casualty that he had not known about and it was only when he got home and checked with his family that the link was confirmed.... Of all the places to stand, I'd "chosen" one which had an unknown significance to either of us when we entered the cemetery..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenchtrotter Posted 28 August , 2015 Share Posted 28 August , 2015 I disagree. Somewhere sometime "Dan" has clearly been told his relative was interred at Douchy Farm. It simply did not register in his conscious memory but did in his sub conscious. This buried memory was bought to the conscious when the sign was seen. That's my belief anyway. TT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Wade Posted 28 August , 2015 Share Posted 28 August , 2015 Great story Canadian J, sometimes these things just happen that way and I'm glad he found his Great Uncle's grave. Seems really fitting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterhogg Posted 29 August , 2015 Share Posted 29 August , 2015 Umm okay. How is any of this "strange"? Please tell me. Oh and by the way, Mametz wood...is just a wood. No ghosts or phantoms exist there. Why would they? Since such things do not exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian J Posted 29 August , 2015 Share Posted 29 August , 2015 Umm okay. How is any of this "strange"? Please tell me. Oh and by the way, Mametz wood...is just a wood. No ghosts or phantoms exist there. Why would they? Since such things do not exist. It would be nice if members could post their stories in the appropriate thread without being devalued. I don't think it is fair to discredit someones experience; it is their experience and not yours. I've really appreciated everyone taking the time to share, so why not just enjoy the stories? and if not, maybe check out a different thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hazelclark Posted 29 August , 2015 Share Posted 29 August , 2015 That is only YOUR opinion. Just because one has never personally experienced a weird occurrence, doesn't mean it can't happen. I am sure there is a rational explanation for the strange experiences some people have. We just don't yet know what it is. Some of the events mentioned in this thread are likely just coincidences. However, I don't think that you can make the bald statement that "neither ghosts nor phantoms", or whatever you want to call them, exist. There is no doubt in my mind,through personal experience, that people with close emotional ties can communicate in extremity via telepathy, (or something) therefore I will keep an open mind about the rest. It is not only the Scots who are "fey". Hazel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hazelclark Posted 29 August , 2015 Share Posted 29 August , 2015 It would be nice if members could post their stories in the appropriate thread without being devalued. I don't think it is fair to discredit someones experience; it is their experience and not yours. I've really appreciated everyone taking the time to share, so why not just enjoy the stories? and if not, maybe check out a different thread. I'm with you on that one! Maybe all the hustle and bustle and sirens here in Vancouver turn off one's sensitivity. H. (just a weekender) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian J Posted 29 August , 2015 Share Posted 29 August , 2015 It really seems so... I've said before about visiting High Wood with a work colleague who had a relative buried there in WW1. Whilst he was paying his respects, I wandered out of the way and stood where I could still see him but at a respectful distance. When he'd finished he came over to me and looked down at the headstone I was standing behind.... He was astonished to see the same family name for a WW2 casualty that he had not known about and it was only when he got home and checked with his family that the link was confirmed.... Of all the places to stand, I'd "chosen" one which had an unknown significance to either of us when we entered the cemetery..... Wow Kevin, a very moving story for sure! Some things are just too far beyond coincidence in my opinion, thanks so much for posting it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenchtrotter Posted 29 August , 2015 Share Posted 29 August , 2015 I take no offence with any posts here and Connor is entitled to offer his opinion. I am skeptical and will comment so. I agree Mametz is simply a wood and as I have posted before woods have always given mankind the spooks as they were places of danger and darkness. I enjoy reading the stories but not believing them is not devaluing or as Melchet would say to Black Adder poo pooing! TT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyH Posted 29 August , 2015 Share Posted 29 August , 2015 Not a Western Front location or even particularly a Great War time period. But the wife of a friend works in an industrial warehouse that is on the approximate position of the officers mess of a former Ordnance Depot (1804-1965). On occasions there is a very strong and persistent smell of cigar smoke, there is a strictly enforced smoking ban on the whole site, the workforce is mainly female and would not smoke cigars............ Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaforths Posted 29 August , 2015 Share Posted 29 August , 2015 I take no offence with any posts here and Connor is entitled to offer his opinion. I am skeptical and will comment so. I agree Mametz is simply a wood and as I have posted before woods have always given mankind the spooks as they were places of danger and darkness. I enjoy reading the stories but not believing them is not devaluing or as Melchet would say to Black Adder poo pooing! TT I am also a skeptic but I enjoy reading the stuff here. I've had a couple of things happen to me and cannot, try as I might, and I have tried to challenge what happened, I cannot explain them away logically. Which makes me then wonder why they happened to me in the first place. I thought you had to believe in all this stuff for something to occur. I stick to what my dad told me when I was a kid and was worried about ghosts; 'The dead can't hurt you, it's the living you need to worry about'. I thought that makes sense, and stopped worrying about ghosts. My old cat was fey. She used to stand on her back legs and dance with the fey folk in the garden, in the moonlight. Actually, she might have been chasing moths Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allison01 Posted 29 August , 2015 Share Posted 29 August , 2015 I am also a skeptic but I enjoy reading the stuff here. I've had a couple of things happen to me and cannot, try as I might, and I have tried to challenge what happened, I cannot explain them away logically. Which makes me then wonder why they happened to me in the first place. I thought you had to believe in all this stuff for something to occur. I stick to what my dad told me when I was a kid and was worried about ghosts; 'The dead can't hurt you, it's the living you need to worry about'. I thought that makes sense, and stopped worrying about ghosts. My old cat was fey. She used to stand on her back legs and dance with the fey folk in the garden, in the moonlight. Actually, she might have been chasing moths Hear, hear. Exactly my thought's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IRC Kevin Posted 29 August , 2015 Share Posted 29 August , 2015 A few years ago my wife and I visited Tyne Cot to get photographs of the 1/4th King's Own names on the Memorial Wall for a book on the battalion. Although I'd been many time before, it was her first visit and she was quite overwhelmed by the scale of the cemetery. We'd gone straight to the wall, so she could take the photos and then wandered over to the memorial cross, looking downhill towards the mass of the graves. She then turned to me and said, "Wait here, we've missed one." Before I could ask her anything else, she headed off at speed downwards and to the left, making for what seemed to be a particular grave some considerable distance away and off to a side of the cemetery we'd not been to. I watched her photograph the grave before returning to the cross. When I asked her what made her go there, she just replied, "I don't know. I just had a really strong feeling that I should be over there. It was like someone didn't want to be left out." (The photo she took is below) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian J Posted 31 August , 2015 Share Posted 31 August , 2015 A few years ago my wife and I visited Tyne Cot to get photographs of the 1/4th King's Own names on the Memorial Wall for a book on the battalion. Although I'd been many time before, it was her first visit and she was quite overwhelmed by the scale of the cemetery. We'd gone straight to the wall, so she could take the photos and then wandered over to the memorial cross, looking downhill towards the mass of the graves. She then turned to me and said, "Wait here, we've missed one." Before I could ask her anything else, she headed off at speed downwards and to the left, making for what seemed to be a particular grave some considerable distance away and off to a side of the cemetery we'd not been to. I watched her photograph the grave before returning to the cross. When I asked her what made her go there, she just replied, "I don't know. I just had a really strong feeling that I should be over there. It was like someone didn't want to be left out." (The photo she took is below) Thanks so much for sharing this one Kevin! I suppose there is a possibility that this man's name could be somewhere among the pages of "The Lion and the Rose", unfortunately we will never know for sure. Strange how you have most likely came across his name, but with the impossibility of linking the two together; so close yet so far. I am glad he wasn't left out. Thanks again Kevin, a very nice story. - Jordan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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