Strange Occurrences on the Western Front

[Uncle George]

Captain W E Newcome of the Second Battalion of the Suffolk Regiment's experience was related in 'Pearson's Magazine' of August 1919.

Here it is:

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=jxQEAwAAQBAJ&pg=PT49&lpg=PT49&dq=pearson%27s+magazine+august+1919&source=bl&ots=xU-olL8GwO&sig=AJ-uXw36obC6fKbijDhT8IHfNxY&hl=en&sa=X&ei=oKTbVKttiZZqlZeC8AQ&ved=0CCkQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=pearson's%20magazine%20august%201919&f=false

[Khaki]

Those strange experiences are very hard to explain, one would think that the Somme battlefield and all the other areas including cemeteries would be rife with supernatural events, but it does seem that they are limited in geography and to those who can perceive them. My own experience having visited many battlefields and 'haunted locations' around the world is almost zero, there is one area however about 25x35 feet, a cheerful bright area occupied by a souvenir sales store, but twice when I have entered it , I have been overwhelmed by a feeling of intense sadness. I wonder what lies beneath the floor or occurred at that location?

khaki

[KIRKY]

Khaki , where is this place?

tony

[Khaki]

Sorry Tony,

the site is the property of the Church, and I believe that they would not appreciate it being identified or associated with the topic under discussion.

khaki

[Strawb67]

I have just returned from the Western Front Battlefields, having visited with my family, including my children, 18, 14 and 12. We stayed in Hardecourt and travelled quite extensively around the battlefields and frankly didn't feel any disturbance at all.

There were two places that my children came back to my wife and I and commented on how serene and peaceful they felt, which prior to them coming back to my wife and I after some of their own exploration had been something that we were talking about whilst wandering on our own.

The first place was the Lochnagar Crater, the first day we visited was bitterly cold and dark so we didn't spend a lot of time there and returned a couple of days later when the weather was more pleasant, there just seemed to be a peace that was around the area and we all decided that everything was calm and we were all able to contemplate what had taken place!

The second place that we had similar feelings was the Australian Memorial at Villers Brett. on both days we visited there were incredibly dark clouds blowing over the landscape and the memorial but we all felt at peace there!

It is strange that in places tha had experienced so much tragedy that there was an overwhelming calmness!

Cheers

John

[Steve Bramley]

Several years ago a friend and myself visited the Normandy beaches. We visted Pegasus Bridge, Arromanches, Juno Beach and the American Normandy Cemetery in that order. On the dunes near the American Cemetery is an small obelisk type memorial to (if I remember correctly) an Engineer Company. We are both football fans and myself, being a Spurs fan, noticed the name Zamora on the memorial and mentioned this to my friend. Bobby Zamora had just been transferred from Spurs to West Ham (I saw his only goal for Spurs!).

We walked around the impressive visitor centre and then made our way into the cemetery and walked along the centre isle with the hundreds of headstones either side of us. After we had walked past, perhaps thirty rows I saw the first headstone with a wreath in front of it on the left hand side, so decided to have a look. Yep, it was the same Zamora as named on the obelisk memorial.

Just one of those strange coincidences that happen from time to time.

Steve

[Steve Bramley]

As for the western front?

The Grancourt area of the Ancre I find very atmospheric. The walk along the road from the Schwaben Redoubt towards Battery Valley and back up the sunken road to Stump Road Cemetery always makes me feel a little uncomfortable for some reason.... I keep returning though, I am fascinated by the area.

S.

[tonyoz777]

My first post and I'd like to say what an absorbing read this whole thread has been and am very grateful for all who have contributed and shared there personal experiences and views from both sides of the fence. I am completely open minded on the whole subject and can't honestly claim to have had any strange experiences however I do often get a feeling of "things past" when visiting sites with known historical importance which I put down solely to these places being exactly what they are.

Having had an inexplicable fascination and desire to visit the area for many years (I have no knowledge of any family connection) I made my first visit to The Somme in 2013 for the 1st July commemorations and had a few days either side which enabled me to explore a number of areas alone. I found all of the cemeteries incredibly restful and spent many hours alone re-reading a number of standard textbooks (The Somme, First Day of The Somme etc) and felt completely and utterly at peace with the surroundings and managed to become absorbed in the whole atmosphere.

Having said that, my areas of solo exploration tended to concentrate around the Beaumont, Thiepval, and La Boiselle sectors. I visited Delville and strolled the woods alone (although there were plenty of visitors around elsewhere) and experienced nothing untoward. It's interesting reading through the thread from my own personal point that I didn't have much inclination to visit much around the Mametz or High Wood areas - was I subconsciously avoiding doing so ?

I'd met a few fellow sufferers of "Somme Fever" during my visit where we'd discussed Rossignol Wood - I was staying in St-Leger-les-Authie so it was pretty well en-route from Albert but each time I intended to stop and explore I couldn't bring myself to do so. The first occasion was early evening and overcast, the next occasion was bright mid-morning sunshine. Both times I stopped at the smaller of the two cemeteries on the main road but could not being myself to venture into the wood. Driving past on later occasions I had a definite uneasy feeling.

I'm returning again June/July this year and intend to visit Mametz etc so will post in due course what, if any, my experiences are. I'm also hoping to get Rossignol explored, providing I can find someone to come with me

[Ghazala]

Welcome to the forum Tony.

[Ghazala]

As for the western front?

The Grancourt area of the Ancre I find very atmospheric. The walk along the road from the Schwaben Redoubt towards Battery Valley and back up the sunken road to Stump Road Cemetery always makes me feel a little uncomfortable for some reason.... I keep returning though, I am fascinated by the area.

S.

I stay every year with Frédéric and Mireille Saingier at Battery Valley Farm at Grandcourt. A marvellous place to stay and a fine cooked breakfast each morning.

[tonyoz777]

Welcome to the forum Tony.

Many thanks Ghazala

[Creafield]

Many interesting stories here and I hope I add to them with one of two from my experiences touring.

I hesitate to relate this story as I have been a Veterinary Scientist for 40 years and I have absolutely NO belief in the paranormal, homeopathy or iridology!!!

As my bio states I have been tracing and visiting the 307 boys from Sydney Grammar School who lost their lives in WW1. The fifth trip in September/October last year.

In May 2009 I visited Major Frank Lindeman in Becourt Military Cemetery. With all the boys I visited I would take a few photos, take a small stone as a keepsake, and write a small message in the visitor’s book.

In September that year I had just come in from doing some farm work when the phone rings a lady asks ‘Are you Philip Creagh’, suddenly worry levels increase!!!, next she said did you visit Frank Lindeman in France … worry levels decrease!!!.

As it turned out she was Major Frank Lindeman’s grand-daughter. After a most pleasant discussion I asked her to write a small article of what it felt like to finally visit her grandfather so that I could put it with the records at Sydney Grammar. This is what she wrote:

Becourt Military Cemetery, Becordel-Becourt

I visited my grandfather’s grave on Bastille Day, 2009. I had excellent directions on how to get to the cemetery from the Australian War Graves Commission. Nevertheless, when I got there it seemed smaller than I had expected, so I wasn’t entirely sure it was the right place until I actually found the headstone.

I also hadn’t accurately anticipated how I would feel when I was there, at the moment I located the grave. I felt quite overwhelmed with grief -it almost felt as if I was experiencing all the grief that his death, in July 1916, had caused in the family just six months after my father was born.

Being Bastille Day, the cemetery had no other visitors that day. After wandering around the cemetery, and lying for sometime in the sun near his headstone, I wrote my grandfather a note and left it under the plants growing close to his headstone. The cemetery is beautifully maintained, and in July the flowers were in full bloom. It was a perfect day, and the cemetery is positioned on a gentle slope overlooking a farm cottage and tall stands of trees. It is a lovely walk from Albert, only 2kms from the centre of town through fields of crops and poppies growing along the sides of the road.

A visitor’s book is kept at the cemetery, which I signed. The pages were for the previous six months and there were very few entries. One entry immediately caught my eye – I took a photograph of the entry. It read:

Philip Creagh, Narooma NSW. In loving memory of Frank Lindeman, an old boy from Sydney Grammar School, remembered always. Philip C (SGS ‘59-‘66)

I was greatly moved by reading this. I knew that Philip C was from a completely different generation and couldn’t have known the family. However, someone had taken the trouble to write this about him, to remember his name. Somehow, it made a difference. I was so moved by reading this entry that I wanted to contact Philip and to let him know that this gesture had meant a lot to me. A few Google and white pages searches later, I had made contact with Philip and learnt about his personal project of visiting the graves and sites of significance of the fallen who had attended SGS. This is such a wonderful project; to keep alive the memories of the SGS old boys who did not return from the war, across generations.

Melissa Lindeman,

Granddaughter of Major Frank William W. Lindeman

Alice Springs, January 2010.

I visited Frank the last few trips. On our last trip, on 22nd September 2014, this year I took some dirt from Alice Springs where Mellissa iives and placed it next to his headstone … it looked VERY red!!.

I walked up the slope to the back of the cemetery, which is bordered on three sides by woods. It was an overcast day with a light scotch mist drifting around. I noticed what appeared to be a small hawk (in Australia I would have said a brown falcon) flying around. He would fly very close toward me, then down the hill.

I walked down the hill and he seemed very intent on watching me. I stopped at the row with Frank’s grave and it flew down onto Frank’s headstone. I slowly walked down the row till only a few metres away. Every time I moved to take a photo he flew away … when I stood still he flew back .. always landing on Frank’s headstone.

I have treated many wounded raptors in my career and they have a way of following you with their head perfectly still, whilst you move their body … It can be a little unnerving. From only a few metres away this bird would move its body and his eyes and head would be on me intently.

I would talk to it and it would stay there … not particularly frightened, only if I moved to get a photo. It flew off and landed maybe 5 times over 5 minutes before I couldn’t stay any longer because of my sore back.

As I walked toward the front entrance he would fly quite close to my head .. landing on the roof of the entrance and watching intently as I walked underneath. My wife, who was in the car, had seen most of this and wondered what the bird was up to!!!

My guess was that the CWGC gardeners feed it a lot, which is almost impossible to do with an Australian wild bird ... or??????

[Ghazala]

Excellent post Philip, thank you.

Two Australian soldiers looking at graves in a cemetery at Becordel-Becourt near Albert.

© IWM (E(AUS) 166)

[ianw]

That's a great piece above.

One thing that rings a bell with me is the great feeling of grief that can overwhelm one over there. Almost like you are the chosen repository for frustrated grief from the past.

[brummell]

Intrigued by this thread and repeated mentions of Mametz Wood, I took the plunge earlier this week and tabbed across the valley into the Hammerhead. Despite several visits to the Memorial and Death Valley, I had never previously entered the wood. It was a rather grim day on the Somme on Thursday; overcast, breezy and wet. I was alone. I expected the edge of the wood to be quite 'normal' due to the number of visitors that must go over to that part, and sure enough there are poppy crosses, Welsh flags and wreaths around, and the wood is still quite open. I followed one of the rides for 10 minutes or so deeper into the wood way beyond signs of any other human presence, past or present.

I have to say I experienced nothing untoward at all - it was just like any other wood I've ever been in. It was dank and dreary from the time of year, but not scary or oppressive.

Not sure if this pours cold water on anything, but it is just my experience - I don't doubt that other people have felt what they've felt, but maybe they took it in there with them?

[Andy Wade]

You could have something there brummell. I think for me it was imagining what went on and having read some of the accounts that occurred virtually on the post where I was stood.

It hit home in a way that I hadn't expected, but I'm sure it was more to do with myself and the moment, as opposed to the place 'imparting' something into me at that time.

Very strong impression though.

[horrocks]

Intrigued by this thread and repeated mentions of Mametz Wood, I took the plunge earlier this week and tabbed across the valley into the Hammerhead. Despite several visits to the Memorial and Death Valley, I had never previously entered the wood. It was a rather grim day on the Somme on Thursday; overcast, breezy and wet. I was alone. I expected the edge of the wood to be quite 'normal' due to the number of visitors that must go over to that part, and sure enough there are poppy crosses, Welsh flags and wreaths around, and the wood is still quite open. I followed one of the rides for 10 minutes or so deeper into the wood way beyond signs of any other human presence, past or present.

I have to say I experienced nothing untoward at all - it was just like any other wood I've ever been in. It was dank and dreary from the time of year, but not scary or oppressive.

Not sure if this pours cold water on anything, but it is just my experience - I don't doubt that other people have felt what they've felt, but maybe they took it in there with them?

I was there the previous evening, at dusk! Despite the gloom, and the fact that I was alone, no particularly unpleasant feelings - and I am amongst those who have recounted, earlier in this thread, the sense of oppression and silence that had me hightailing it out of the wood.

[Khaki]

I was there the previous evening, at dusk! Despite the gloom, and the fact that I was alone, no particularly unpleasant feelings - and I am amongst those who have recounted, earlier in this thread, the sense of oppression and silence that had me hightailing it out of the wood.

I don't believe that locational sensations/feelings are constant, even to the same person at the exact same location. There is one place that I have previously posted a comment (#527) on that gives me the most overwhelming feeling of sadness. I don't recall how many times I have been there, but I know that on two occasions I have experienced this feeling. Once you have felt it you don't forget it as it is an enveloping sensation.

khaki

[Dbaulch]

Adding my experiences to this fascinating thread (although I wish I hadn’t read it last thing at night)

As a frequent visitor to Ypres and the Somme I have visited my fair share and then some of cemeteries and battlefields. 99% of the time the feeling I have is very positive. Its remarkable how many times I have entered a cemetery, during a dull and overcast day, only for the sun to suddenly shine through the clouds and illuminate the cemetery and the cemetery alone. I feel welcomed in these places. They are generally pleased to have visitors.

I was in Contalmaison in February for some field walking and after many bottles of cheap plonk we donned our headlamps and went for the night walk. There was nothing foreboding about the experience, it was again, very positive.

Two places stand out, however, in that they are very negative sites to visit. Newfoundland Park and Mametz Wood.

I was conducting a tour in September 2014. We had taken lunch in the Old Blighty and paid our respects at Pozieres Memorial. It was a bright sunny and impressively warm day for the time of year. We went up to Bouzincourt ridge to visit the 38th Welsh casualties there and almost in a blink of an eye the weather changed. A huge thunderstorm was brewing to the West. The distant rumbles got closer and louder and temperature dropped. Hurrying back to the minibus we made all haste to our next stop newfoundland park. By the time we arrived the thunder storm was directly over head. The individual thunder claps were so frequent the noise became a cacophony we all believed sounded like artillery fire. The volume and oppression in the air was incredible. The rain started to pour and the noise built some more. We stood. Unable to speak for some time. You could smell and hear battle. The place was awash with negativity and gloom. This was one of the most powerful experiences of my life, but all said, not a bad one. We were being shown some small hint of what it was like there. We were being educated.

Lastly I must mention Mametz wood as so many others have. While field walking in February we entered Mamtez from the southern edge. The others in my group decided to walk the fields between the wood and Contalmaison to the West. I had a desire, suddenly, to walk directly into the wood alone. I progressed along an old trench line some distance. I can only compare my experience there to a visit I made to Dachau concentration camp some years before. The wood was still. There was no sound of birds or life at all. One can only compare the feeling in there to being somewhere reverence is required, a huge cemetery, a cathedral during a funeral, or while observing the 2 minutes silence in November. The atmosphere there is tangible and I do not put it down to knowing what happened in these places. I have visited many many locations but none with a feeling such as this. I am agnostic, I do not believe in ghosts but there is a presence of some kind in that place. For which I respect it immensely.

[ianw]

Hurrying back to the minibus we made all haste to our next stop newfoundland park. By the time we arrived the thunder storm was directly over head. The individual thunder claps were so frequent the noise became a cacophony we all believed sounded like artillery fire. The volume and oppression in the air was incredible. The rain started to pour and the noise built some more. We stood. Unable to speak for some time. You could smell and hear battle. The place was awash with negativity and gloom. This was one of the most powerful experiences of my life, but all said, not a bad one. We were being shown some small hint of what it was like there. We were being educated.

Rose Coombs herself commented on how heavy rain at Newfoundland Park caused the smell of battle to come forth. Not sure if she commented on the sound of thunder adding to the experience!

[hillgorilla]

Many years ago I visited Tyne Cot, it was empty of visitors though there had been heavy rain, I could smell corrode. It was the same ssmell that had encountered on the ranges.

Meant to be cordite that could smell

[Ghazala]

Some spooky goings-on amidst the Seaforth Highlanders.

[Allison01]

Well I guess I knew it was coming, have been waiting a while though...OK here goes, I occasionally have very, very vivid undream-like dreams that are not of the same quality as the usual bonkers dream. In the past these dreams have then connected with something that then happens in real life.

On one occasion a very unexpected event happened the morning after a particularly painfully, sad dream from which I woke up crying, I wont explain it as it isn't on topic and I still haven't got my head round it, suffice to say I still can't offer a rational explanation. That alone bothers me as I would happily class myself as a cynic who doesn't believe in ghosts, as much as I love a good ghost story and scaring myself.

Anyway about 10 years ago I had one of those dreams, I was walking along a field, it was raining heavily and the ground was churning up, alongside the field was a trench that was rapidly filling with water. The rain slowed, the sky grew darker, except for the horizon which grew more orange and vivid but the rest of the sky kept on getting blacker and blacker. At the same time the ground was shaking and there was a rumbling and booming in the distance that was getting louder and closer. At this point I was very frightened so jumped down into the boggy trench and crouched down on the fire step, my hand was leaning on the side of the trench and underneath my hand was something metal. I dug it out with my fingers and it was a very grubby Sherwood Foresters badge. From out of the hole it had left in the wall blood poured out, and I mean streaming, not trickling, at which point thankfully I woke up.

It was absolutely terrifying, oppressive and almost malevolent in atmosphere.

Now as I say I am a cynic. I have obviously read a lot that would have inspired that particular horror. I have never forgotten it, it was so awful and vivid.

This evening while on Ancestry researching my granddads cousins- its a massive family all based in north London and Hertfordshire, dozens and dozens of cousins that I am slowly researching- I ,as you have probably guessed found my Sherwood Forester, and as expected he is one of the lost commemorated on Arras memorial.

Make of it what you will, for me it's an elaborate coincidence, others might have other ideas! Either way have promised to remember him and to visit the memorial.

Sleeping with the lights on tonight cynic or not!

Sweet dreams

Allison

[horrocks]

I find this most interesting Allison, though expect some to be cynical. I have had both nightime dreams and sudden, intensely worrying daytime thoughts about relatives that have proved to be premonitory several times in the past. It has sometimes been difficult to escape the rationalisation that sometimes our thoughts and actions are guided by something intangible to us, but no less real.

As an aside, and I say this entirely without sarcasm. your experience has the bones of a potentially rather good short story or screenplay. Just a thought...

[Allison01]

I can't shake it off this morning and have been googling like mad to pinpoint the position of the 7th Sherwood Foresters on March 21st. The were part of the Battle of St Quentin. I am only slightly freaked out!

Would love to see some trench maps and compare contemporary photo's to see if I recognise the location. Unfortunately will be out most of the morning, but when I get back I need to find out as much as I can about this battle and this poor man.