Leinster Regiment - Lookups Offered

[michaellewis]

I have a book detailing the history of the Leinster Regiment in the Great War and am happy to do lookups.

[6th Shropshires]

Hi LeinsterSoldier

Welcome to the forum. At last someone with knowledge of the Leinsters, I have been waiting for you there is another member, Linda, who will be pleased too.

Could you please tell if it gives any detail of the line held by the 2/ Leinster from 6th-25th June 1915. I have stand To by Captain F. C. Hitchcock which as a map of the line they hold but it does not match line according to the Official History (which is dated for end of May 1915).

Also about 80 to 90 men of the K.S.L.I. were transfared to the Leinster, most seem to have gone to the 2nd & 7th Battalions, just wondering if there is any mention of them joining.

Thanks

Annette

[michaellewis]

Hi LeinsterSoldier

Welcome to the forum. At last someone with knowledge of the Leinsters, I have been waiting for you there is another member, Linda, who will be pleased too.

Could you please tell if it gives any detail of the line held by the 2/ Leinster from 6th-25th June 1915. I have stand To by Captain F. C. Hitchcock which as a map of the line they hold but it does not match line according to the Official History (which is dated for end of May 1915).

Also about 80 to 90 men of the K.S.L.I. were transfared to the Leinster, most seem to have gone to the 2nd & 7th Battalions, just wondering if there is any mention of them joining.

Thanks

Annette

Hi Annette,

Thankyou for your enquiry. It's nice to find someone else with an interest in this fine Irish Regiment. I will quote from the book to answer your question:

"On 5th June 1915, the Battalion marched to the trenches NE of Ypres, occupying a supporting line about 600 to 900 yds behind the Rifle Brigade and Royal Fusiliers. The Leinster's line extended from a point north of St Jean to the NW where it joined-up with the French second line. The trenches were found to be good but shallow. Work commenced on their improvement immediately. The weather was extremely hot, bombardment was fairly heavy, and there were a good many casualties. The Battalion remained in this position until being relieved on 20th June when it went into billets 2 miles E of Poperinghe. Casualties during the period at La Brique were 5 killed and 50 wounded."

On 3rd July 1915, the Battalion relieved the KSLI at Potijze. The narrative does not mention anything about a transfer of personnel. At this time, 7th Leinsters were still training at Kilworth in Ireland, again no mention of any transfers of personnel.

Hope this is helpful. What is your interest or connection with the Leinsters?

Regards

Mike

[6th Shropshires]

Hi Mike

My main interest lies in the K.S.L.I. but the 2nd Leinster were in the same Division as the 1/K.S.L.I. and I tend to have an interest in all the units that fort side by side with the Shropshires.

The reseason I ask about the 2nd Leinster is that Captain F. C. Hitchcock map does not match were front line is shown in the official History. According to OH, after the withdrawal of the 4th Division's line on the night of 24th May, the line ran from Wieltje Farm to Hill Top Farm, and thence to Turco Farm, with advanced posts in front of Wieltje village and at Cross Road Farm. But Hitchcock map as the front line bearing off to the left from near Cross Roads Farm to pass by La Belle Alliance. I am trying to find out if is map is wrong or not, and if its not wrong, did more fighting take place here after the 24th May, according to OH there is no mention of any more major withdrawals here after the 24th May.

Thanks

Annette

[Michael Pegum]

Could you please see where the 1st. Battalion of the Leinsters were on 15th March, 1915, and if there is any mention of Capt. R. McG. Bowen-Colthurst, killed in action on that day?

Also, where the 5th Btn. were on 29th September, 1918? This one concerns Lt. Col. John McDonnell, but he is listed as attached to the Inniskillings and may have been with them. He is buried in the Ypres area. As a point of interest, his son was killed in World War II.

Could you also please see, if there is an index, if there is any mention of Col. Robert Thomas Carew? He died at home in Ireland on 11th February, 1917, but he is on the C.W.G.C. list.

[docchippy]

LeinsterSoldier

Any news of actions or details of the following men?

Pte James, Boland, 5329, KIA,27/12/1917, Egypt, 1st Batt

Pte Charles J, Coulson, 5538, KIA,31/07/1917, F&F, 2nd batt

Pte John,Egan, 3621, KIA,21/04/1917, F&F, 2nd batt

Pte Thomas,Galligan, 4733, DOW, 13/08/1915, F&F, 2nd Batt

Pte Patrick, Galligan, 1399, KIA, 08/03/1917, F&F, 7th Batt

Regards

Doc

[michaellewis]

Could you please see where the 1st. Battalion of the Leinsters were on 15th March, 1915, and if there is any mention of Capt. R. McG. Bowen-Colthurst, killed in action on that day?

Also, where the 5th Btn. were on 29th September, 1918? This one concerns Lt. Col. John McDonnell, but he is listed as attached to the Inniskillings and may have been with them. He is buried in the Ypres area. As a point of interest, his son was killed in World War II.

Could you also please see, if there is an index, if there is any mention of Col. Robert Thomas Carew? He died at home in Ireland on 11th February, 1917, but he is on the C.W.G.C. list.

Hi Michael,

Thanks for your enquiry. It's good to see an interest in this fine Regiment. I will quote from the book in order to answer your questions.

'On 14th March 1915 the Duke of cornwall's Light Infantry were holding the famous mound SE of St Eloi. For some days, a German attack had been expected and about 5pm that afternoon it opened in dramatic fashion. The enemy had laid a very powerful mine under the mound which they now fired. The explosion wrecked all the defences in the vicinity and killed and wounded many of the DCLI. The enemy followed this with an infantry attack and succeeded in driving the Royal Irish Fusiliers from some of their trenches. The enemy did not press-on, but began to strengthen the mound.

1st Leinsters were at this time resting in reserve at Dickebusch and received orders to move at once up to Voormezeele. The companies of the Battalion were in position east and south of the village. Soon orders were received to re-take trench 20 which had been lost in the enemy attack. Sometime after midnight, the Battalion moved off in column of route. Shortly after crossing the Ypres road, the Battalion deployed in darkness. On the right was Captain Bowen-Colthurst's Company which together with Lieutenant Pemberton's Company, were to re-capture the Breastwork and trench 20. It was now about 2am, and the Battalion went to its task. Trench 20 was carried by a brillient little attack of 'A' Company under Captain Bowen-Colthurst.

The enemy made numerous attacks to try to force the Battalion from its newly-gained ground, including heavy shellfire from 7am onwards. At 7.35am, our own guns opened fire in error on the Breastwork. The telephone wires from Shelly farm to Battalion HQ at White Horse cellars had been repeatedly cut, and runners were sent back to try and stop the guns, which eventually happened. Enemy shelling went on practically all day. At about 9pm, Battalion patrols worked forward and found the Germans had evacuated trenches 19 and 19a. Our casulaties had been heavy. Captain Bowen-Colthurst, Captain radcliffe, and a a subaltern had been killed; 3 officers were wounded; and OR casulaties were over 100.

Captain Bowen-Colthurst was buried in St Eloi village nearly opposite the White Horse cellars'

Re your enquiry on the 5th Bn. It was disbanded on 11th May 1918 in England.

There is no mention in the index of Col Carew.

What is your interest or connection with the Leinsters?

Hope this is helpful

Mike

[Michael Pegum]

Hi Michael,

What is your interest or connection with the Leinsters?

Mike

Very useful information, Mike. I am researching a war memorial which has Capt. Bowen-Colthurst on it, and I hope to get accounts of the actions in which each man died. I will now need to follow up Col. McDonnell with the Inniskillings.

Could you please let me have the full reference for the book: title, author or editor, publisher, place and date of publication and page number?

Thanks very much for your help, Michael

[michaellewis]

Very useful information, Mike. I am researching a war memorial which has Capt. Bowen-Colthurst on it, and I hope to get accounts of the actions in which each man died. I will now need to follow up Col. McDonnell with the Inniskillings.

Could you please let me have the full reference for the book: title, author or editor, publisher, place and date of publication and page number?

Thanks very much for your help, Michael

Hi Michael,

The book is 'The History of The Prince Of Wales's Leinster Regiment (Royal Canadians) Part II'

By Lt-Col Frederick Ernest Whitton CMG. Published by Gale & Polden Aldershot 1924.

Reprinted by the Naval & Miltary Press. (where I obtained it from)

Pages 113 - 118 detail the action of Captain Bowen-Colthurst.

I can't see an ISBN number in the book.

Mike

[michaellewis]

LeinsterSoldier

Any news of actions or details of the following men?

Pte James, Boland, 5329, KIA,27/12/1917, Egypt, 1st Batt

Pte Charles J, Coulson, 5538, KIA,31/07/1917, F&F, 2nd batt

Pte John,Egan, 3621, KIA,21/04/1917, F&F, 2nd batt

Pte Thomas,Galligan, 4733, DOW, 13/08/1915, F&F, 2nd Batt

Pte Patrick, Galligan, 1399, KIA, 08/03/1917, F&F, 7th Batt

Regards

Doc

Hi Doc,

Unfortunately, none of your men are mentioned by name in the book.

Pte Boland would have died during the action at Deir Ibzia in Palestine in which 1st Leinsters successfully removed the Turks from a ridge surrounded by very steep Wadis. 30 men of the Battalion being killed.

Pte Coulson died on the first day of the battle of Passchendaele. 2nd Leinsters were one of the lead Battalions at the opening of the attack, and suffered heavy casualties.

Pte Egan was killed when the Battalion was resting in reserve after taking part in the capture of Vimy Ridge - possibly died of wounds received during that battle?

Pte Thomas Galligan would have died in the action at Hooge near Ypres. Having taken over a trench some 300 yds long, the Battalion was subjected to an intense barrage of HE and shrapnel shells for over 3 hours, and was considered to be the worst suffered by the Battalion during the war.

Pte Patrick Galligan would have died during a massive bombardment of the the front line trench held by 7th Leinsters at Messines on 8/3/17.

Hope this is helpful.

What is your interest or connection with the Leinsters?

Regards

Mike

[docchippy]

Picked up the medals belonging to these men in a job lot a few years back. Intrigued me as I knew nothing of the regiment. Thanks for the info

doc

[isadore]

Leinstersoldier, I would appreciate a look for any mention of

Captain \ Lieutenant Charles Weld

Thanks

Isadore

[Ferguson73uk]

Hi Mike,

One man on our RoH here in Barry in South Wales died whilst with the Leinster Regt.:

Corporal Owen David Mooney, 3rd Battalion, died 15/7/16 buried in Cork Military Cemetery

Do you have any further information on him? I know his great nephew would appreciate any information I can find out.

Thanks!

Jonathan

[clive_hughes]

Hello there - following up your kind offer, can I ask in what action the 2nd Battalion Leinsters were engaged on the Western Front as of date 20th October 1914?

I'm researching casualties with an Anglesey connection, and one Pte. Patrick Bergin is listed on the Holyhead War Memorial as killed that day.

Many thanks,

LST_164

[mutley]

LST164

The 2nd Leinsters were involved in the Battle of Armentiers on the 20th October 1914. To be precise they were in the area of Premesques with D Coy trenches infront of the village. The Germans opened up an artillery barrage at approx 8am shattering the poorly prepared trenches. The barrage lasted for about a quarter of an hour before the German infantry attacked in force.

Hope this helps

Mutley

PS My Grandfather was a Leinster serving in the 6th and 7th Bn's

[mutley]

Isadore

There are two mentions of a Weld in the Regimental History, one in a letter written by the CO of 7th Bn on 5th August 1917 which went out to all officers commanding companies; one of which is called Weld and the second mention is of a Captain Weld being wounded with the 2nd Bn in 1918. If you would like me to type out either entry let me know.

Rgds

Mutley

[mutley]

Isadore

as you can see by the time of this post I'm having trouble sleeping, so I thought I'd put the 7th Bn entry on now:

"Dear Magahy, Weld, Fudger and Ashe,

As we are going out tonight, right back, for a real rest, I want to put before you one or two facts which in turn I want you to put before the officers and men of your companies.

I consider this to be the greatest trial that the old 7th Leinsters have ever gone through and I am proud to say that in the eyes of our brigadier and GOC we have come through it with flying colours and high honour.

On friday last when two battalions were detailed to hold the present front line I was asked to join in a general protest on account of the exhaustion of our men

I reported our men to be in a greater state of exhaustion than I had ever seen the battalion before. But realising that this is a fight to the finish, I was loth to say anything that would tarnish our well earned reputation in the GOC's eyes as the 'Fighting Leinsters' so I closed my report with these words:

'Although I feel it my duty to report that the men of my battalion are genuinely exhausted, at the same time I know we are living in exceptional days and we shall make an exceptional effort if called upon to do so'. I felt I was speaking for my officers and men, and I am proud to see how magnificently you have all - officers and men - backed me up. As a result General Hickie decide to give the Leinsters the pride of place, he left us to hold the whole front single handed the same front he originally detailed to be held by two battalions. No greater compliment, no greater honour has ever befallen the 7th Leinsters. Generals Pereia and Hickie have written we words which thrill me with pride for the honour of commanding a battalion with so grand a fighting spirit. Both generals will personally speak to thank the men as soon as we get out. Tell your officers, non-commisioned officers and men of what i am telling you. We are not yet out of the wood, let us see to it that at the eleventh hour nothing is done to detract from the high honour that has come to us. I appeal to you once again - officers and men let us pull ourselves together for the last lap. Let us carry out the relief in silence, cheerfulness and order. No stragglers, no missing men, no rifles or packs abandoned. Let us march out up to the Leinster standard of which the 7th has always prided itself.

As for me, my heart hasw bled for you all during these days and nights of trial. I shall thank God when I see you all safely out, and there is no prouder colonel in the whole British Army than I am today. You have all, officers, noncommissioned officers and men, behaved magnificently."

GA BUCKLEY

LT COL

Commandingf 7th Bn Leinster Regt

The above is taken form the Regimental History page 428 -429

Hope this helps

Mutley

[mutley]

Isadore

as you can see by the time of this post I'm having trouble sleeping, so I thought I'd put the 7th Bn entry on now:

"Dear Magahy, Weld, Fudger and Ashe,

As we are going out tonight, right back, for a real rest, I want to put before you one or two facts which in turn I want you to put before the officers and men of your companies.

I consider this to be the greatest trial that the old 7th Leinsters have ever gone through and I am proud to say that in the eyes of our brigadier and GOC we have come through it with flying colours and high honour.

On friday last when two battalions were detailed to hold the present front line I was asked to join in a general protest on account of the exhaustion of our men

I reported our men to be in a greater state of exhaustion than I had ever seen the battalion before. But realising that this is a fight to the finish, I was loth to say anything that would tarnish our well earned reputation in the GOC's eyes as the 'Fighting Leinsters' so I closed my report with these words:

'Although I feel it my duty to report that the men of my battalion are genuinely exhausted, at the same time I know we are living in exceptional days and we shall make an exceptional effort if called upon to do so'. I felt I was speaking for my officers and men, and I am proud to see how magnificently you have all - officers and men - backed me up. As a result General Hickie decide to give the Leinsters the pride of place, he left us to hold the whole front single handed the same front he originally detailed to be held by two battalions. No greater compliment, no greater honour has ever befallen the 7th Leinsters. Generals Pereia and Hickie have written we words which thrill me with pride for the honour of commanding a battalion with so grand a fighting spirit. Both generals will personally speak to thank the men as soon as we get out. Tell your officers, non-commisioned officers and men of what i am telling you. We are not yet out of the wood, let us see to it that at the eleventh hour nothing is done to detract from the high honour that has come to us. I appeal to you once again - officers and men let us pull ourselves together for the last lap. Let us carry out the relief in silence, cheerfulness and order. No stragglers, no missing men, no rifles or packs abandoned. Let us march out up to the Leinster standard of which the 7th has always prided itself.

As for me, my heart hasw bled for you all during these days and nights of trial. I shall thank God when I see you all safely out, and there is no prouder colonel in the whole British Army than I am today. You have all, officers, noncommissioned officers and men, behaved magnificently."

GA BUCKLEY

LT COL

Commandingf 7th Bn Leinster Regt

The above is taken form the Regimental History page 428 -429

Hope this helps

Mutley

[mutley]

Isadore

as you can see by the time of this post I'm having trouble sleeping, so I thought I'd put the 7th Bn entry on now:

"Dear Magahy, Weld, Fudger and Ashe,

As we are going out tonight, right back, for a real rest, I want to put before you one or two facts which in turn I want you to put before the officers and men of your companies.

I consider this to be the greatest trial that the old 7th Leinsters have ever gone through and I am proud to say that in the eyes of our brigadier and GOC we have come through it with flying colours and high honour.

On friday last when two battalions were detailed to hold the present front line I was asked to join in a general protest on account of the exhaustion of our men

I reported our men to be in a greater state of exhaustion than I had ever seen the battalion before. But realising that this is a fight to the finish, I was loth to say anything that would tarnish our well earned reputation in the GOC's eyes as the 'Fighting Leinsters' so I closed my report with these words:

'Although I feel it my duty to report that the men of my battalion are genuinely exhausted, at the same time I know we are living in exceptional days and we shall make an exceptional effort if called upon to do so'. I felt I was speaking for my officers and men, and I am proud to see how magnificently you have all - officers and men - backed me up. As a result General Hickie decide to give the Leinsters the pride of place, he left us to hold the whole front single handed the same front he originally detailed to be held by two battalions. No greater compliment, no greater honour has ever befallen the 7th Leinsters. Generals Pereia and Hickie have written we words which thrill me with pride for the honour of commanding a battalion with so grand a fighting spirit. Both generals will personally speak to thank the men as soon as we get out. Tell your officers, non-commisioned officers and men of what i am telling you. We are not yet out of the wood, let us see to it that at the eleventh hour nothing is done to detract from the high honour that has come to us. I appeal to you once again - officers and men let us pull ourselves together for the last lap. Let us carry out the relief in silence, cheerfulness and order. No stragglers, no missing men, no rifles or packs abandoned. Let us march out up to the Leinster standard of which the 7th has always prided itself.

As for me, my heart hasw bled for you all during these days and nights of trial. I shall thank God when I see you all safely out, and there is no prouder colonel in the whole British Army than I am today. You have all, officers, noncommissioned officers and men, behaved magnificently."

GA BUCKLEY

LT COL

Commandingf 7th Bn Leinster Regt

The above is taken form the Regimental History page 428 -429

Hope this helps

Mutley

[isadore]

Mutley, dedication beyond the call.....

Thanks a million for that.

Captain Weld was awarded the MC in 1918 so I am also interested in seeing the entry you mentioned for 1918?

But please get some sleep before posting it!

Isadore

[mutley]

Isadore

the second entry is from page 455, it concerns the battalions actions during the great German offensive of March 1918.

Quote " In its heroic effort to withstand the onrush of the flood tide of attack, the Battalion had lost severely. On the 22nd Lieutenant Craig and Second Lieutenant s Butler, Brophy, Eastwood, Surtees, and Stowell were killed. Wounded were Major Freeman; Captains Cullinan , Barry, Weld and Mathias; Lieutenat Boyal and Second Lieutenants parks, Taylor, Lemon, McKeogh, Fitzgerald, Herbert, Delaney, Hunter and O'Brien. Second Lieutenant Smythe was missing. In the further fighting from the 27th to 29th Captains Webster, McCann, and Farrell were wounded, the first named fatally; and among the missing were Second Lieutenants Spencer, Mills, Snook and Holmes. Few battle honours have been more bloodily earned than that of St Quentin in March 1918, by the 2nd Battalion."

Hope this helps

regards

Mutley

[mutley]

Isadore

one mistake in the above, "Lieutenat Boyal" should read Lieutenant Doyle, also parks should have a capital P.

sorry

Mutley

[michaellewis]

Hi Isadore and LST 164,

I see Mutley has beaten me to it! Good to see interest in this fine Irish Regiment.

Mike

[clive_hughes]

Thanks, Mutley - I'll add that bit of info to the casualty files!

So far, he's the only Leinster casualty with Anglesey connections that I've come across. He is mentioned not only on Holyhead town war memorial, but the Holyhead section of the much larger ""North Wales Heroes' Memorial Arch" in Bangor, Gwynedd. this (separate to the various local efforts, and often with different lists of names!) commemorates all casualties from the six former counties of N.Wales.

Long ago, when I collected war medals, I had a BWM/Vic pair to a 5695 Pte W.G.Coker of the Leinster. Other than that he wasn't an obvious casualty, in those days I couldn't find out any more and I eventually parted with the pair.

Many thanks to you again,

LST_164

[isadore]

Mutley and LeinsterSoldier

Many thanks to you both for your help

Isadore