Roger Thompson Posted 10 July , 2009 Share Posted 10 July , 2009 Hi Gwyn, On the modern map if you look slightly to the right and slighly up from Cooper Street you will see School Brow and that was on the next page of the enumerators schedule, also a page further back from the drill hall was Parson Lane now demolished but in the general are of 36 B2 around where the supermarket is now. By jove just look at what is at the top of Cooper Street, yes a TA Centre. Cheers Roger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Posted 12 July , 2009 Share Posted 12 July , 2009 The TA centre at the top of Cooper Street is the massive drill hall at the Castle Armoury. I went to Bury today and looked! I'll add a photo shortly. I also went to Elton, but short of driving up and down the streets looking like a kerb-crawler I couldn't see a Cooper Street. I'm mystified by this because if you're in Elton you can't possibly think you're in the town centre. Were there two Cooper Streets? I don't know. I'm unfamiliar with censuses. Does the order of adjacent streets listed give any clues about which district the census enumerator was recording when the Cooper Street Drill Hall was noted? I'm not giving up this puzzle and would welcome insights. Gwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Posted 13 July , 2009 Share Posted 13 July , 2009 This is the TA centre Roger spotted on the map: and It has some fabulous gargoyles. Gwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Posted 13 July , 2009 Share Posted 13 July , 2009 I believe this is what it looked like before it was extended. (Postcard - mine) The opening of the extension: (Postcard - mine) The extension cost about £12000. The town's employers were instructed to close their businesses after breakfast on the day of the opening, so that after the Duke of Connaught had been wined and dined by the local worthies, the people could line the gaily decorated streets to see the procession. Unfortunately it rained, the heavy, sodden, cold, soaking Northern rain that spoils even the best of occasions and being November, everyone was chilled through to their bones. Sadly, they wouldn't have seen as much of the Royal visitor as they had hoped. The Duke didn't walk as planned from the town hall to the drill hall, he went by motor car. Doubtless he was gratified to be given the gift of a silver cigar case: as he observed, he possessed rather a lot of memento silver keys. He returned to Manchester on the half past three train to catch the London train. For the people of Bury, the celebration day ended with a bonfire on the fairground and illuminations in the streets. Gwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Thompson Posted 13 July , 2009 Share Posted 13 July , 2009 Hi there Gwyn, Thanks for those fabulous photo's and that now puts it all into prospective, as there was in the original write up I found a mention of the Castle Armoury, so I think that as solved where the old 8th where when the census was taken in the original posting. Cheers Roger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chucka Posted 13 July , 2009 Share Posted 13 July , 2009 Wednessbury Drill Hall (West Midlands) original was under glass, hence reflection of wall light on photo. Chucka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Posted 13 July , 2009 Share Posted 13 July , 2009 Roger, the wonders of a 10 - 22 mm wide-angle zoom.... Chukka, thank you for that. We have had sight of a newspaper cutting of its original appearance and Graeme was contacting someone to ask whether we could use it, but permissions to reproduce seem to have got lost in the post. Looking at it today, photographed for us by Tom Morgan - photo here with some interpretive comments by Tom - it seems a sad loss of a fine, imposing part of the street scene. Where was this photographed, please? Gwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Posted 14 July , 2009 Share Posted 14 July , 2009 Another drill hall to go - one of Horncastle's. Shame on them. Newspaper I've been following the debate for some months now. Local people didn't wish this to happen. Horncastle on drillhalls.org. See Boston road. My photos except the top one, which is credited. I also have pictures of the interior and the memorial plaques. Gwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graeme Fisher Posted 16 July , 2009 Author Share Posted 16 July , 2009 Nice one, Chucka. Where did you find this picture? The drill hall still exists (sort of - the front's missing.....) as a car showroom - you'd miss it if you didn't see the marble plaque from its' opening inside - the current proprietors are quite blase about visitors who want to see the plaque. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chucka Posted 17 July , 2009 Share Posted 17 July , 2009 Believe it or not it is hanging at the bottom of the stairs to the underground car park at Morrisons Wednesbury. Chucka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Posted 2 August , 2009 Share Posted 2 August , 2009 Thanks, Chucka. How odd. I may write to them! We could do with the image. Gwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Thompson Posted 19 August , 2009 Share Posted 19 August , 2009 Hi there Gwyn & Graeme, Just caught up with the updated Yorkshire section it looks smashing, it brought a lump to my throat thinking about the good times I had going out and about doing it for you all. Cheers Roger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graeme Fisher Posted 21 August , 2009 Author Share Posted 21 August , 2009 Hi there Gwyn & Graeme, Just caught up with the updated Yorkshire section it looks smashing, it brought a lump to my throat thinking about the good times I had going out and about doing it for you all. Cheers Roger. Glad you like it, Roger. All made possible by people like you. Ta, mate. Graeme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Posted 16 September , 2009 Share Posted 16 September , 2009 Another drill hall to go - one of Horncastle's. Shame on them. Newspaper Private Eye: post here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Thompson Posted 16 September , 2009 Share Posted 16 September , 2009 Hi there Gwyn, Nothing concrete yet, another meeting 13/10/2009, when a valuation and report will be submitted. Cheers Roger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Posted 11 November , 2009 Share Posted 11 November , 2009 Horncastle Drill Hall saved - till March 2010 and hopefully beyond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Thompson Posted 11 November , 2009 Share Posted 11 November , 2009 Brilliant news any extention is great. Cheers Roger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KAC Posted 26 November , 2009 Share Posted 26 November , 2009 I believe that the English arm of the TA has been unhelpful and uninterested, and not replied to Graeme's letters, even though last year was their centenary and we are recording buildings from its original years. I've had the same negative experience, with emails and direct letters ignored, which has led me to suspect that the part-time voluntary soldiers of 1908-1914 are of virtually no interest to their current archivists. Gwyn Sorry to hear about your problems with Southampton area. You will understand I'm prevented from commenting officially on this site without authorisation, but I hope the following will help. I know that especially 210 and 265 Bty's within 106 Regt have a very positive interest in their history. I don't know who's dealing with this side at 457 Bty, I shall ask around and attempt to find a contact, this could well be from the NAA. If you could send me you email address as a point of contact. Below is a short history from a press release that may help: 457 (Hampshire Yeomanry) Battery RA Volunteers. 457 finds its origins in the history of the 57th (Wessex) Heavy Anti- Aircraft Regt RA. The history of the 57th dates back to the formation of the old Portsmouth Volunteer Unit in the last century, to man coastal Arty in defence of the Dock Yards. Soon after the Boar War it converted to field Arty and saw active service in both Mesoptamia and Palestine in WW1. It converted to AAA in 1932. In August 1939 the Regt was recalled from its 2 week peacetime annual camp at Weybourne and deployed in defence of Portsmouth, IOW, Southampton water and Docks. During the Blitz it had more than 50 enemy planes to its credit. In 1942 the Regt joined the 8th Army taking part in the defence of Tubruk, it also fought in Tripoli and Tunis. The 57th took part in the Solerno landings, fought on to Naples, and took part in the Mount Casino battle and then onto Rome. In 1945 the 57th played an important part in the crossing of the River Po. In 1955 it amalgamated with 428th HAA Regt to form the 457th HAA Regt RA (TA). Between 1955 and 1963 several redesignations followed and the 457th amalgamated with the 295th HAA Regt RA (TA). In 1999 with the formation of 106 Regt, the historic name of 457th Battery was once again resurrected, 457 are affiliated to 47th Regt RA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Posted 26 November , 2009 Share Posted 26 November , 2009 Hello Kentish Man I wasn't specifically meaning the Southampton area; it was a generalised response to a general suggestion to get in touch with the TA. I'm sorry to say that while the Welsh arm of the organisation at least tried to be helpful, the English ones have not usually replied to emails or to letters. It gives the impression that they don't care. It's especially frustrating when we know of pictures of lost drill halls on some of their websites but they won't answer either yes or no when I've asked for permission to use the pictures. I've tried phoning some, and sometimes come away with the strong feeling that history starts in about 1980. Recently one cadet unit used our material - with permission - to describe the history of its drill hall. That was great. I'm happy to see that people in your area have an interest in their history and we would be very appreciative of any input. I'm afraid I don't have a military background - Graeme knows about that sort of stuff but is very occupied at the moment - so I'd be grateful if you could tell me what some of the abbreviations mean: Arty = Artillery? What are AAA and HAA, please? Thank you. Gwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil@basildon Posted 26 November , 2009 Share Posted 26 November , 2009 Gwyn, AAA = Anti Aircraft Artillery HAA = Heavy Anti Aircraft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Thompson Posted 26 November , 2009 Share Posted 26 November , 2009 Hi there Gwyn, Good news at last, weather pemitting I should get to Bridlington next week ans photo the drill hall, then call at Driffield on the way back and see if I can find the one there, I believe its a Rifle and Gun club now. Cheers Roger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KAC Posted 27 November , 2009 Share Posted 27 November , 2009 Hello Kentish Man Hi Gwyn TA Units are generally run by Regular Staff, mostly on a 2 year attachment or NUPS (No-Regular Permeant Staff). Understandably these people do not normally have access to the information you seek. This know is not a problem at Grove Park, Bexleyheath, Maidstone and Mitcham Barracks, where inside the whole place is covered in history. I'm sure this must also be the case in most older TAC's ( Territorial Army Centers). Another problem is that over the years most units have changed roles and Cap Badges as required by the current situation. Because of this sometimes Units lose their historical lineage or its unfortunately suppressed. Compounding this problem is the situation where a Unit may disband or relocate, leaving a Drill Hall vacant, then another unit will take residency possibly years later. I'm sure most units, like my own will have several members who are Guardians, ensuring the history is passed on to the new recruits. There are also many Unit Associations, Unit Museums and Unit Archives, a lot of these can be found on the web. The best place to locate the Unit that occupied a Drill Hall and tracing their linage was by using the 'Regiments' website. From there it was a simple matter of contacting the appropriate descendant Unit, Association or Museum. One of my current task our updating our lineage, this includes the locations of their Drill Halls. One of the problems located here is that a Drill Hall can be known by up to six different names or addresses. Below is a list of Drill Halls used by my Units descendants or associates, please note these may also be known by other names: Ashford Catford Canterbury Beckenham Bromley - Bromley Common Bromley - Hill House Bexleyheath Blackheath - Holly Hedge House Bunhill Row Chatham Chiselhurst Dover Dartford Deptford Dulwich Charlton Camberwell Eltham Erith Flodden Road Faversham Foots Cray Folkestone Greenwich Grove Park Horns Cross - Greenhythe Hythe Lamberth Lee Lea Green Margate Maidstone New Street SE1 Pembury Penge Plumstead Sandwich Sidcup Sutton Sun Street Shaftesbury St St. George's Market Sydenham Tunbridge Tunbridge Wells Ramesgate Sandgate Walworth Whitstable Wimbledon Woolwich Woolwich Royal Arsenal Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Posted 27 November , 2009 Share Posted 27 November , 2009 It's the lack of reply of any sort that irritates me, not the possibility that they might not know. A simple request to borrow a picture sitting on a website could at least elicit 'Yes' or 'No'. Welsh units have pointed me at the people who might know. We are interested in a very specific period. Even regimental museums have often barely any information, with a few exceptions. I know as a fact that one regiment actively destroyed its records of drill halls. Graeme may well have different views on the TA. I speak only for myself. I found them unhelpful. I have given up asking and I find my information by other routes. Thank you for taking the time to post the details and the list. One problem is not finding the towns, but the detailed addresses from the 1908-1914 period. Phil - thanks for the explanation. Roger - thanks. It's good that you're well enough to go out and about. Gwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KAC Posted 27 November , 2009 Share Posted 27 November , 2009 Hi Gwyn I'm away this weekend, shall get back to you on this subject in a few days after I have asked a couple of questions... Couple more of our old Drill Halls Bromley - The Rookery, Bromley Common (requsisioned at start of ww2 because East Street was to small, used during expansion 1939-1940, then used by RAF from Biggin hill and distroyed by fire in 1946) Bromley - Old Town Hall - (used as armoury only - Troops would parade in Mkt Sq before the East St Drill Hall was built)* Farnborough - Kent (Interesting in that C Darwins son was an officer here) *I don't know if its been mentioned, but some early TAC's/Drill Halls were known as the 'Town Armoury' or just the 'Armoury'. These where used to store the weapons and sometimes would have a Resident Instructor or Caretaker, the Troops would then parade and train in the open or use another existing facility. Regards Kentish Man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KAC Posted 29 November , 2009 Share Posted 29 November , 2009 Hi Gwyn Back home after a weekend out in the cold, rain and mud! This may be information that you are aware of already! I just had to confirm I was correct before posting the following! To prevent the situation's that you have experienced in the past with some units, it may be worth in future contacting the same Units using the 'Freedom of Information Act'. Details: www.thegrid.org.uk/info/dataprotection/.../awareness_guidance_11.pdf http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/new/4176 http://www.mod.uk/defenceinternet/freedomo...n/disclosurelog Using this service means these Units have to reply, even if they have no information available and can't help you. Hope this helps... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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