Y Sap Crater site

[Martin Brown]

is there an argument for 'prioritising' sites in terms of which ones we are going to campaign for and which ones we are going to let go?

Petroc is absolutely right. Viewed archaeologically this site is 400 miles long and 20 miles deep or whatever, without taking other theatres into account, and people live and work there. As the Zone Rouge wasn't turned into a giant memorial park in 1919 we have to integrate appreciation, study and memorialisation of the heritage with the lives and aspirations of the local populations.

There will always be contesting views of significance: historians, archaeologists etc may regard some sites as less significant but if that's where uncle Jack lost his legs it probably retains significance to you and to anyone studying, however loosely, the 3Bn Royal Borsetshire Yeomary. Even so some agreement on the really significant sites can be reached and other cases can be argued on a case by case basis. Some sites will be significant enough to warrant preservation, others could be developed following suitable archaeological recording, a third group could probably be let go but the largest group will survive preserved in situ under the fields and, dare I say it, under houses in some cases, as I doubt the development at La Boiselle will have much impact on the crater. Those of you familiar with the A19 saga will know this is what the Belgians did, although the govt have never given their archaeologists enough funds to do all the necessary work.

However the important thing is to have a sensible research agenda and some reasoned basis for objections to proposals. I've mentioned the idea of significance to a few peole already, including the All Party War Graves Group so we'll see.

[Petroc]

Martin,

I'm both intrigued and gratified by your level-headed response to this sensitive issue, particularly your point about preserving remains 'in situ' beneath developments; let's face it, time stands still for no man, and isn't this a common practice amongst archaeologists concerned with earlier periods of our collective history? Recent news has focussed on the discovery of a rare, possibly unique, Roman chariot-racing amphitheatre in Essex which, after proper investigation, cataloguing and mapping, will be buried (and therefore preserved) under a new development. In my own neck of the woods, our Cornish cousins celebrate St Piran's Day at the site of the man's own, ancient, oratory on a wind-sept beach; it has been deliberately buried beneath the dunes to protect it from the ravages of the elements. I guess it all boils down to an argument about 'preservation' versus 'visible access'; yet how many visitors (including ourselves) make regular pilgrimages to, say, a semi-ruined OP on an obscure sector of the Loos front when we can instead lose ourselves in thought at Sheffield Park, Vimy, Polygon Wood or Pozieres? Remember, folks, the boys in the cemeteries did not fight so that we should leave their fields of endeavour totally devoid of human life and progress .

[chris.wight]

I wonder how many people moving into new homes like the ones mentioned by Paul really know about what they are getting into? Do they have an idea about the history of the location or that they are moving into a home built on the former front lines? Are they aware of the possible dangers from unexploded munitions, etc.?

I can only speak for myself but the last place I would want to situate a new home would be on a former battlefield, even if the price was right.

[Paul Reed]

I honestly think that most don't have any idea Chris. I remember we used to visit a cafe at Gavrelle on a tour we once did. The cafe owner, grateful for the trade, asked me one day why a group of English people would be interested in visiting such a little village. He knew nothing of the war, and was surprised when I told him that the house in which he lived did not exist prior to the 1920s - and that the village was blown off the map. He had lived there for years and seemingly not even noticed the war cemeteries!

[andigger]

I honestly think that most don't have any idea Chris.

Really! I am surprised to hear/read that Paul. I would have thought that the majority of the people who live there even today would have had family in the immediate region well pre dating the Great War. Therefore the stories would have been passed down. Is it the case that a number of people are moving the area of the Front today? What is the draw, since its obviously not the history. Andy

[Paul Reed]

Really! I am surprised to hear/read that Paul. I would have thought that the majority of the people who live there even today would have had family in the immediate region well pre dating the Great War. Therefore the stories would have been passed down.

In Courcelette there is only one family who lived their before WW1. All the others have come since the 20s/30s, and many since WW2. It is typical in most Somme villages, and probably most of France. Awareness is 'hit and miss' but for most French people WW1 begins and ends at Verdun, not the Somme.

Many of the new houses being built are for people who work in Paris or Lille, and have no roots in the area, and thus little awareness of what went on.

[chris.wight]

I honestly think that most don't have any idea Chris. I remember we used to visit a cafe at Gavrelle on a tour we once did. The cafe owner, grateful for the trade, asked me one day why a group of English people would be interested in visiting such a little village. He knew nothing of the war, and was surprised when I told him that the house in which he lived did not exist prior to the 1920s - and that the village was blown off the map. He had lived there for years and seemingly not even noticed the war cemeteries!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Quite amazing not to have noticed the cemetaries!

I have to wonder how easy these homes will be to insure? Surely, the insurance companies would take note of the locations of these homes which would either mean high premiums or outright refusal. And if a claim arises where the cause related to some aspect of the war how would that work out? After all the insurance company could suggest the homeowner should have done his homework before buying a house in such a location.

[Paul Reed]

There are no 'searches' on French property (unless you request it) so its former history is not an issue. To be honest, the only way I know of property being damaged by WW1 is when a building collapses into a dugout.

I am having enough trouble trying to get my French insurance company to pay for the replacement of some rough tiles on my barn lost in the December hurricane - one can only imagine what anything more serious might be like!

[andigger]

lost in the December hurricane -

Just out of curiosity, what is a French hurricane in Dec like?

Andy

[Paul Reed]

Probably nothing like a US one, but it did a lot of damage. It was a freak; we don't get them every year, only now and again thankfully.

[Simon Jones]

Here is a rough overlay of the Y Sap mine tunnel plan laid over a 1980s aerial photo of La Boisselle. The tunnel is the right angle line in the top left quarter. The Glory Hole is a really important area which needs protecting before it goes the way of the Y Sap crater and the craterfields at the Redan and Carnoy.

Regards

Simon

[Petroc]

Simon; let me know more about this Lancaster stuff; Andy_1916@hotmail.com