Sherwood Forester Enlistment Date Database

[Grimesy1967]

Pte Alfred Colledge 51844

transferred to South Staffs 32558

KIA Messines Ridge 08/06/1917

he enlisted in Leicester. From your messages, December 1915 looks favorite, but i note your comments on the unreliability of 5XXXX numbers.

Can i be sure he enlisted at leicester with the SF (was the Leicestershire fully subscribed then?), or would there have been a subsequent transfer? Also, how do i go about finding which battalion he served in the SF, and when he transferrred out?

Sorry its a bit off subject, but there are a lot of knowing users on this thread. Maybe you can guide me.

Regards

Chris

Sorry Andrew, i'm a Fox

[mikebriggs]

Andrew

I've a quick query for your enlistment database

27462 Sam Carter Houghton

He is my Aunties Grandfather and was k/a with the 2nd Salford Pals on 23rd Nov 1916 (almost the last pointless attack of the Somme Battles).

His SDGW record has him as formerly N & D (27462), but there is no mention of N & D on his MIC so I suspect that he was transferred to 16/LF before leaving England.

Any ideas when he might have enlisted with a 27462 number?

Thanks

Mike

[mikebriggs]

I assume by Fox you mean Leicester City?

Anyway I think that this is similar to the Sam Houghton situation.

Alfred Colledge is recorded on SDGW as serving with the N & D (#51844) and yet there is no mention of this on his MIC. The MICs only recorded medal entitlements (and not service) so I would guess he left England as a member of the 7/S Staffs. Of course only his Army Service Records could confirm/dispute this.

In Manchester we have two teams; the famous one and the good one

[Andrew Hesketh]

Sorry for being a bit slow in responding chaps.

Jan - I'm a bit short of reliable dates for the 8th battalion, but I have two that straddle your Great Grandfather's number. 3441 is January 1915 and 4136 is 20 June 1915. So I would say Spring of 1915 in this case, probably April / May.

Deejay - 18457 Hallam I can get quite close to: it's either 3rd or 4th November 1914. 73196 Hallam is more problematic. As you may have noticed there has been quite a discussion about the 7**** sequence. They mostly seem to be men transferred into the Notts & Derbys from other regiments. Th 73*** batch appear to have come in during July 1916 and many went to the 11th battalion to make up for losses suffered on 1st July on the Somme. In this case he came from the Machine Gun Corps so I can't help you with his initial enlsitment.

RoryS - 9727 Smith is a pre-war number that fits well with 2nd battalion reservists. It suggest an initial date of 1904/1905 but I'm afraid I can be no more precise than that. Cavers 4986 is an early/mid 1916 enlistment but the 622213 renumber is a complete mystery to me.

Chris - yes the 5**** series is a dog's breakfast so there's not much sense I can offer you on this one I'm afraid. If it helps, December 1914 fits with several of the numbers nearby and many were initially territorials rerouted to the service battalions. As a volunteer he would have been allowed to enlist in any regiment regardles of the location of his enlistment, but that's not to say he actually got his wish. As to battalion I'm clueless I'm afraid as there is no pattern there. The only near certainty is that his training period would have been with the 3rd Reserve battalion rather than the 4th Reserve. Sorry. As to when he was transferred, you need a South Staffs expert who may glean something from that number, though I think Mike is correct in suggesting that he did not actually serve overseas with the Sherwoods. Presumably, upon completion of his training, he was transferred then. If that's true a ball-park suggestion would be mid 1915.

Mike - 27462 Houghton gives an enlistment date of 16th, 17th or 18th June 1915 (27418 is the 16th and 27481 is the 18th and there is good continuity of sequences in either direction)

Thanks chaps!

[mikebriggs]

thanks Andrew, it adds another little piece to his story

cheers mate

[deejay]

Likewise, many thanks Andy

Maybe JOHN HALLAM, 73196 it was the reason he was in the Pioneers!

Cheers,

DAve

[Andrew Hesketh]

Dave,

Do you know whether Palmer is named on the Pilsley* memorial? (This is just out of interest because there is some crossover of names on that and the Tibshelf memorial)

(* I presume this is the Pilsley adjacent to Tibshelf, not the one in the Peak)

[mikebriggs]

Andrew

do you mean Herbert Palmer Hallam?

and yes there is a H Hallam on the Pilsley memorial

[Andrew Hesketh]

Doh! Yes, that's who I meant! Thanks for the memorial confirmation.

[leemax551]

ANOTHER ONE FOR YOU LIST PRIVATE WILLIAM CHARLES ROBINSON 48707 20TH LABOUR BN SHERWOODS FORESTERS DIED 18/01/1919. IM TRYING TO FIND MORE DETAILS RE SERVICE UNIT ETC ANY HELP APPRECIATED.

[mikebriggs]

A few more enlistment dates from Silver War Badge MICs

1806 Edmund Cooke 1/7th Bn enlisted 21.5.13

6408 Sgt George White en 1.9.14

85893 John Hallam en 8.5.17

5523 Ernest Jones 5 Res Bn enlisted 6.12.15

12044 Hallam 2nd Bn en 8.9.14

12?846 Smith enl 1.7.18

[adinetuse]

My grandfather John Ward was Pte 30071 1st Garrison Battalion Sherwood Foresters. The battalion was raised in July 1915 but he was certainly in service from Sept 1914, whether or not with this Regiment and/or number I don't know.

[Guest]

Doh! Yes, that's who I meant! Thanks for the memorial confirmation.

Andrew

Any clues as to potential enlistment date for:

39938. PTE F. LIMBRICK

NOTTS & DERBY. R.

thx

Dave

[Andrew Hesketh]

Sorry - I haven't checked back on this thread for a few weeks.

Mike - thanks as always.

Nimrod / Sad Act - I'll check and see what I can offer.

[MatthewT]

Sorry - I haven't checked back on this thread for a few weeks.

Mike - thanks as always.

Nimrod / Sad Act - I'll check and see what I can offer.

Andrew,

Another one for you (my great Great Uncle):

Serjeant John Allen Taylor fought with the 9th Battalion Sherwood Foresters and was KIA on the 4th November 1918 in Sebourg.

Service number 201999

Regsitered in Alfreton

His name is on the memorial in Cromford.

Am lucky enough to have copies of his service record, enlisitment paperwork and medical records as well as other personal posessions (bamboo Serjeants cane, medals, oil painting and photos)

Regards

Matt

[Guest j perkins]

Tis my first time on this forum. Hope i m on the right track!

Noticed that there is a database for SF...

I m currently trying to find out more info on my great grandfather....

1st/5th battalion

private john perkins

81365

sherwood foresters (notts & derby regiment)

died on 17.05.1918 aged 29 years old.

buried plot 1 grave 91 in Fouguieres Chruch, France.

my dad only found the details recently (as well as a photo..am happy to scan it if anyone want a look)

I d like more information to pass it onto dad...eg when did he enlist? whats the movement of the battalion... i tried all the websites... i m none the wiser what with the divisions emerging etc....think this battalion became 46th or 59th ??.... and where was the battle too please (aisne? somme? help!!)

it d be wonderful if i could have any help or advice

many thanks and look forward hear more

jackie

[mikebriggs]

Hello Jackie

The 1/5th Battalion were part of the Territorial Force and belonged to the 139th Brigade of the 46th Division. Their home station was at Derby.

They moved to France in February 1915. However you G/GFather has a very high number that is suggestive of a late 1917 or early 1918 enlistment. He might even have been conscripted.

Andrew will be able to tell you with much more precision.

As for the day in question

During the summer of 1918 the 1/5th Battn Sherwood Foresters (with the 46th Division) were holding the front line at Essars (near Bethune and northeast of Lens); in fact they had been there for quite a few months fighting in the ruins of the abandoned mining villages.

The Battalion moved into the front line on May 14th and was relieved on the 16th. However, it looks like on the 17th they were 'digging a line of resistance on the right sector' close to Essars. There is no mention of any casualties on that day (which is not unusual for a War Diary), but the Battalion had 6 soldiers killed during May and I would assume that John Perkins was one of them.

Hope that helps a bit

cheers

Mike

[Andrew Hesketh]

I probably won't be able to add more than Mike has written above but I'll see if I can offer a rough estimate of time of enlistment when I can cure a few technical hitches with my PC at home (I'm at work now - shhhh!). However I know from memory that the 8**** series is a messy one for which I've got little info. Almost certainly a post 1916 conscript though as Mike has also suggested.

[mikebriggs]

...and just to add that his SDGW record lists him as serving in the Leicesters (38338), which isn't mentioned on his MIC. Perhaps he transfered to N & D before he left England?

It must be the week for PC gliches. My firewall decided on its own (!) to re-write the rules for internet access and blocked outlook and all e-mail trafficking. Took me hours to figure out what it had done!

The blighter.

[stevem49]

I probably won't be able to add more than Mike has written above but I'll see if I can offer a rough estimate of time of enlistment when I can cure a few technical hitches with my PC at home (I'm at work now - shhhh!). However I know from memory that the 8**** series is a messy one for which I've got little info. Almost certainly a post 1916 conscript though as Mike has also suggested.

I do not think I sent this one !

Private George Hopkinson 'D' Coy 9th Bn died of wounds 4/12/1916. 23005 and his CWGC details have Enlisted Feb 1915.

stevem

[Andrew Hesketh]

Cheers Steve. This makes perfect sense as the nearest I have either side are also both 9th Bn - 22738 Carter, 28 Jan 1915 and 23041 Walker, 8 Feb 1915.

Private John Perkins 81365 - as I suspected I can't be too helpful here, but it looks as though it should be an early 1917 date though as the 86***, 87*** and 89*** series of numbers are mostly (though not all) May-June 1917.

[stevem49]

Cheers Steve. This makes perfect sense as the nearest I have either side are also both 9th Bn - 22738 Carter, 28 Jan 1915 and 23041 Walker, 8 Feb 1915.

Have you got -

12525 Pte George Blythe enl 17 August 1914 and

13394 Pte Tom Arthur Rouse, enl August 1914. both 9th Bn

I cannot find 22738 Carter in my rolls (but it could be me !!). There were some missing from the roll as I know Fred Greaves mate George Farby died on Somme but he is not on the medal roll for 9th.

stevem

[Andrew Hesketh]

Steve, many thanks for the two new enlistment dates.

You can check out Carter here: http://www.oldnotts.co.uk/sutton/memorial/ww1/carter_f.htm

[stevem49]

Steve, many thanks for the two new enlistment dates.

You can check out Carter here: http://www.oldnotts.co.uk/sutton/memorial/ww1/carter_f.htm

Found him ! He is one of the men that was added on at the end. I think a number were copied more than once, so they left the details on at the end. Why they did not just leave the men in the correct order is something only the army will ever know! I did have him on my list of men killed though so knew he had to be somewhere.

steve

[Guest j perkins]

Private John Perkins 81365 - as I suspected I can't be too helpful here, but it looks as though it should be an early 1917 date though as the 86***, 87*** and 89*** series of numbers are mostly (though not all) May-June 1917.

Thats great, its been most helpful. A memorial plague (designed by E Carter Preston) was given to J Perkins' wife, and he was buried in plot 1, grave 91 at Fourquieres Churchyard, France. Does it resemble with the timing of the whole eposide as well?

We re hoping to go and visit the grave soon, hence trying to collect the history. My dad will be so happy with this information, so many thanks to you all for the information provided.

Jackie