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Remembered Today:

Sherwood Forester Enlistment Date Database


Andrew Hesketh

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Sorry, do not know the enlistment date yet, but if I get it I will forward it on to you.

Regards

Andy

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roy litchfield

Hi Andrew,

Don't know if this helps but I have 14/15 trio to 1742, Pte. Thomas Allwood (later 265178), also his TFEM & TEM both named to 4961129 Sjt. (WO CL 2,) 7th. Forresters.

BW Roy

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Hi Andrew

Wasn't sure that arrival dates in battalion/regiment would be of use, but a read of the thread suggests they might be.

The reason for no enlistment dates for the 70000s could well be that these were soldiers transferred into the regiment with previous army service. I know that the 73000 series were initially at least mainly transfers in from the S Staffs. 130 of them arrived at the 11th late July 1916, obviously as Somme replacements.

Interested? If so, e-mail me with your e-mail address, and I'll reply attaching details.

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Andrew

My grandfather 20050 Walter Stockdale, enlisted 24/11/1914 into the 10th Battlion. Discharged wounded on 18/07/1918

regards

Geoff

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Andrew

Some more

242496 Alfred Atkin 27/02/1913

8780 Edward Biddulph 21/09/1914

306717 Wilfred Coggin Att 04/12/1915, Mob 01/02/1916

13388 Edgar Cook 23/081914

15679 Harry Cuerton 07/09/1914

201072 Percy Dawes 07/11/1914

19732 Herbert Haskey 23/11/1914

18949 John Henry Hall 11/11/1914

16626 Henry Goucher 11/09/1914

22080 Frederick Lee 08/01/1915

7319 Michael Phillips 16/09/1914

4745 Theophelus Winterbottom 05/08/1914

all of the above are on the same page of the War Badge Rolls as my Grandfather, Walter Stockdale

regards

Geoff

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Andrew Hesketh

Geoff,

Massively appreciated. I will add your list to mine. The date for your Grandfather is great, especially as I have the date for 20049 and 20058 who were also both in the 10th.

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Andrew Hesketh

Richard,

I'll be in touch! Thanks for your comments on the 7**** series. I wasn't aware of that until I began this project and now it is becoming very clear that you are right. Most of the ones I have confirmed details for are men transferred from SF territorial battalions, particularly a large batch that seem to have come across in August 1916 following service in Ireland during the Easter Rising. This neatly explains why their original enlistment dates have no pattern at all!

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Andrew Hesketh
Hi Andrew,

Don't know if this helps but I have 14/15 trio to 1742, Pte. Thomas Allwood (later 265178), also his TFEM & TEM both named to 4961129 Sjt. (WO CL 2,) 7th. Forresters.

BW Roy

Thanks Roy. As Tesco say, every little helps. :)

Sorry, do not know the enlistment date yet, but if I get it I will forward it on to you.

Regards

Andy

Much obliged.

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Andrew

This is a representative sample of 6th Battalion men - so it gives you an idea of how enlistment went in the Notts and Derbys Territorials, although I suspect that the City Battalions - 5th and 7th - were probably able to enlist more men faster (does that make sense?). I actually drew an 'enlistment date' graph not long ago - will try to dig out (its in excel)

Number Name Date of enlistment

21 Alfred H Taylor Enlisted 1.4.08

111 William H Cherry Enlisted 2.4.08

202 Joseph Clarke Enlisted 5.4.08

401 James Waterhouse Enlisted 2.4.08

456 Henry Holland Enlisted 1.4.08

1134 John Ravey Enlisted 22.4.09

1306 Charles Gettliffe Enlisted 11.1.11

1451 Arthur Martin Enlisted 14.6.11

1524 James Shirt Enlisted 11.1.12

1732 George Greenhalgh Enlisted 11.9.12

1870 Samuel Furniss Enlisted 14.4.13

2038 Edmund Shatwell Enlisted 27.8.13

2121 Frank Pullen Enlisted 16.2.14

2250 William Graham Enlisted 15.8.14

2291 Frederick Geaves Enlisted 1.9.14

2596 Levi Bagshaw Enlisted 10.10.14

3074 William Brailsford Enlisted 21.10.14

3546 Victor Allsopp Enlisted 13.11.14

3639 Samuel Brailsford Enlisted 23.1.15

4158 William Whitton Enlisted 15.3.15

4448 William Knight Enlisted 2.8.15

4922 Barradell Enlisted 9.12.15

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Andrew Hesketh

Mike.

Thank you very much. That is an extremely useful list and I will incorporate it into my spreadsheet a.s.a.p. The pre-1917 4 digit territorial numbers are proving a bit of a pain to be honest, even with precsie enlistment dates, because unless it is certain which battalion they were with then, as the same number crops up in all four battalions (eight if you include the 2nd line), it creates confusion - so a bunch of cast-iron 6th's will help a lot.

Cheers :)

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Andrew

I couldn't agree with you more

In one respect the Territorial numbering system is logical in that the first man to (re) enlisted in 1908 was given #1 and the numbering continued from then as men enlisted (until the beginning of 1917). There are of course a few gremlins but for the most part with a “number/enlistment date” framework you could guesstimate an enlistment date for any man in the Battalion.

Problems arise because of the 1st, 2nd and 3rd line Battalions. As the 1st line moved to its War Station the recruitment was continued by the 2nd line and men were transferred to the 1st line (but not all of them). And then as the 2nd line moved overseas the 3rd line recruited men and sent them to the 1st and 2nd line as needed. It’s therefore not always possible to predict in which line Battalion a man was in (ie 1/# or 2/#). So in the list I’ve posted there will be a mixture of 1/6th and 2/6th (perhaps even the odd 21st Provisional Battn!)

But also as you say because the same number was used by all four Battalions (the 1st and 2nd line in each battalion would have only used the number once).

Here are a series of 7th Battn men (mixture of both 1/7th and 2/7th)

899 Harper Enlisted 3.3.09

1305 Clayton Enlisted 29.1.11

1475 Brierley Enlisted 8.1.12

1486 Gregory Enlisted 10.1.12

1512 Harper Enlisted 8.1.12

1890 Charlton Enlisted 3.9.13

1914 Bradbury Enlisted 10.11.13

2002 Beales Enlisted 1.12.14

2017 Buckley Enlisted 7.4.14

2038 Daft Enlisted 24.4.14

2077 Buck Enlisted 11.5.14

2083 Birkenhead Enlisted 11.5.14

2734 Bradford Enlisted 21.9.14

2775 Cheshire Enlisted 22.9.14

2857 Burton Enlisted 26.9.14

2930 Brierley Enlisted 1.10.14

3095 Allman Enlisted 16.10.14

3317 Buttery Enlisted 30.10.14

3387 Carroll Enlisted 3.11.14

3469 Greaves Enlisted 7.11.14

3601 Caborn Enlisted 7.12.14

3625 Dakin Enlisted 16.1.15

4866 Bailey Enlisted 21.6.15

5004 Atkins Enlisted 4.9.15

5135 Day Enlisted 9.10.15

5561 Chaplin Enlisted 4.2.16

5644 Booth Enlisted 9.2.16

6088 Cheese Attested 10.12.15 and Mobilised 22.6.16

6245 Barker Enlisted 12.11.14

6249 Austin Enlisted 20.10.1?

6995 Giddy Enlisted 9.10.16

also posted shorter version of this list in t'other thread thats running

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Andrew Hesketh

Cheers Mike,

'Tis indeed a tad irritating! Thanks for the 7th's.

One of the reasons I'm doing this is to dsicover when my Great Uncle enlisted (Herbert Burman - see signature below). He was 2065 before being renumbered (despite being dead - he was one of the many declared as missing following Gommecourt) and we always believed that he had enlisted pre-war but weren't quite sure when. My info suggested c. April-May 1914 and magically your last post gives me a good 'straddle' of hits: 2038 Daft Enlisted 24.4.14 and 2077 Buck Enlisted 11.5.14.

The gap narrows, fantastic!!

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Andrew Hesketh

Mike.

Whilst adding your names above the following struck me:

6088 Cheese Attested 10.12.15 and Mobilised 22.6.16

Derby man?

And,

6245 Barker Enlisted 12.11.14

Seems very out of sequence. Any ideas?

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Hi Andrew

Yes Cheese is more than likely a Derby Man (came across a few from the 6/Foresters aswell)

As for Barker he is out of sync and it could either be a mistake on the MIC or he was a Regular and later transferred to the 7/Foresters. A lot of the 1st and 2nd men have numbers in that range.

I have to say that of all the SWB MICs that I have come across it is rare to see an out of sync number/date of enlistment.

I hadn't realised that you didn't know Herbert Burman date of enlistment, for some reason I thought that you had his Army Service Records. I've had these 7th numbers/dates for a while and could have sent them earlier. They are all from SWB MICs I will try to see if I can narrow the gap a bit more for you but it's unlikely that I'll find another SWB between 2038 and 2077

Also I hadn't realised that he was posted missing (even though I've read the account from your web site several times). Was his body recovered in spring 1917?

As you know we were at Gommecourt last week and I was explaining to my lad how there were several cemeteries in no-mans-land and the soldiers were buried there as they were found, before being moved to Gommecourt Wood Cemetery. Do you know whether Herbert Burman was buried in one of these and later moved?

cheers

Mike

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Andrew Hesketh

Hi Mike,

Yes I'm afraid I do lack some details. His service record is not extant and, apart from one of his sisters (my grandmother, who passed on his medals and only photograph to me), his memory was not upheld within the family and thus an awful lot was lost and forgotten.

Nevertheless there is a family story that Herbert's mother swore that she saw Herbert on a picture in a local paper of the boys returning home (presumably in 1919). This sparked off a serious search which included the Vicar of Hucknall, where the family were living by 1919. The fact that he was renumbered in April 1917 indicates that he was still not officially dead at that stage. When his body was recovered and where is the next step of my research. I would have assumed that the recovery was in 1917 but the above story, if true, mitigates against that. I keep meaning to get onto the CWGC about it because Gommecourt New Wood is of course a concentration cemetery.

In fact, I've been thinking of trying to get hold of information relating to all the cemeteries that were later concentrated as it may help create a different picture of what went on on 1st July 1916. But that's yet another project..... :P

(Hope the trip went well!)

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I was blissfully ignorant to significance of the 7**** numbers. However thanks to your comments I have looked over the 6th Battalion and can now see men transferred in from other Corps and given 73*** numbers, even though they had previously served with the 6/Foresters and had an original 4-digit number (I wonder why they were not given a new 24**** number?)

But I’ve also noticed that a significant (50) number of men from the 2/6th were transferred to the 24th London Regt and given 73**** numbers so perhaps this was a standard procedure amongst all Territorial Battalions (?)

Andrew, I have this list of 11th Battalion men. They don’t have an enlistment date but they all arrived in France between 21st and 29th August 1915 so are likely to be ‘original’ Kitchener men.

14588 Branston

14722 Fearn

15380 Hardy

15474 Birch

15575 Barker

15854 Hallam

15963 Harper

16145 Hall

16245 Hanxwell

16346 Hall

16493 Busby

16698 Chawner

16710 Gardner

16720 Ayres

16721 Cooke

16774 Davies

16792 Barrows

16795 Baker

16810 Barrows

16864 Cowley

16979 Brooks

17017 Frost

17341 Clownes

17349 Hart

17528 Eyre

17529 Burton

17534 Evans

17535 Clark

17594 Carrington

17607 Cunncliffe

17628 Belfitt

17680 Granger

17700 Brooks

17915 Booth

17954 Gorst

It was a good trip thanks. I had not been at this time of the year before and it was quite different with the lack of crops the topography is a lot clearer. We spent a day at Gommecourt, mainly 'behind the front line' looking over the actions of March/April 1917 as the Foresters moved into Essarts. And then a day at the top of nab valley were the 11th went over (we always seem to end up at these places!) and then walked onto Thiepval through the Leipzig salient.

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Andrew Hesketh

Mike,

Thanks for your continued interest and help. Check your mailbox for a copy of the spreadsheet for the Regular and Service battalions as it currently stands.

Cheers,

Andrew

CAN ANYONE ELSE ADD ANYTHING PLEASE? THIS IS GOING REALLY WELL AND I'M EXTREMELY GRATEFUL FOR EVERY BIT OF INPUT THUS FAR. :)

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Regarding the 7**** numbers, I've seen a similar pattern in the Northamptonshires with numbers 4**** (the difference probably being caused by the relative size of the Regiments). A large batch of 500+ men transferred from various Regiments (a lot from the Bedfordshires) to New Army battalions around July 1916. In discussion with other Forum members it was surmised that these men had trained in England with other Regiments, embarked to France and then been almost immediately transferred. The first casualties from these men occured around September 1916, and there was a large draft into the 6th battalion of 300 men on 18th July 1916. Although unconfirmed I suspect it was the 4**** men. I believe that "standard" numbering had reached around 25000 by that point in the rest of the Regiment.

The Northamptons detail is obviously irrelevant to your study, but it does seem to suggest that the practice was applied across more than one Regiment and apparently in the same timescale.

Hope this helps,

Steve.

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Andrew Hesketh

Thanks Steve - I think there must have been something wider going on as we are working on a similar time period, i.e mid-late 1916. I've also noticed a large number of men from the Notts & Derbys 2nd line TF battalions who transferred to the 1st line in August 1916 following service in the Easter Rising. I wonder if this can be attributable to the Somme?

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There was definately lots of movement within the 6/Foresters during 1916 and I assume that many of the men were from the 2/6th and most likely would have been in Dublin.

You will notice that by December men were being taken from other Battalions of the 139th Brigade - I wonder if these were men wounded during the summer and released from Hospital ??

Draft to the 1/6th during 1916

March

16th 142 OR

31st 122 OR

May

14th 2/Lt Simpson

27th 42 OR

June

6th 72 OR arrived from base

6th 2/Lt C.H.C. Cousins and F.R. Oliver

9th 2/Lt J.L. Robinson

11th 2/Lts W.G. Wood, W.T. Strephens & A.E. Sylvester

26th 2.Lt E. Kershaw

28th 2/Lts L.N. Johnson & A.J. Cooke

July

2nd 2/Lt W.L. Cooper, 2/Lt F.S. Rowland and 54 OR

4th 8 OR

12th 2/Lt Jones & 8 OR

16th 2/Lt B.N. Parker

18th Capts C.V.N.C. Blackwall and E.S. Wood, 2/Lts R. Evans, V.H. Armitage, C.L. Croucher, W.B. Davies & A.P. Stoner

30th 59 OR

August

2nd 2/Lt A.L. Dent & 2/Lt R.F. Briggs

28th 11 Signalers & 15 Lewis Gunners

September

16th 22 OR

27th Lieut G. Glossop & 10 OR from base

October

22nd 2/Lt J.G.J. Hutton & 4 OR

December

24th 40 OR from base (25 from 7th and 15 from 8th

Sherwood Foresters)

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Hi

Ive just found this web site today as we are trying to find out some information for my mother in law regarding her father who was in the great war. We dont have very much info and unsure of where to go ect.

His name seems to have shown up in one of your posts. under the 6th battalion - 3074 William Brailsford.

Enlisted 21.10.14. We are not sure if this is him ( we are awaiting mum to dig out his discharge papers). We do have a photo of him with several other soldiers in a hospital with the name PERCY HOUSE stamped on the photo. We have tried to find the location of percy house but to no avail ( but still seeking).

We know he had a neck and throat injury and the photo is approx 1916. Any suggestions as to what and where we go from here?.

Thanks

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Hello

You might want to look at the following web-site to find out about William H Brailsford

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~b...c/claycross.htm

3074 William H Brailsford Enlisted in 21.10.14; arrived in France some time in 1916 and was k/a 5.11.17 during a raid on the German trenches at Hill 70 near Verquin

Hope that helps a bit

cheers

Mike

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Greenwoodman

Andrew, hope you don't mind me butting in, but I'd like to ask Mike the source of his 11th numbers please. Only around three of them are mentioned in the war diary in the period after the Somme.

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Hello Richard

Thats an easy one. They are all from medal index cards in which the 11th Battalion is ascribed to the man

for example:-

post-4619-1146555822.jpg

I can send you the other 60 odd MICs for the 11th Battn men if they are of any interest

cheers

Mike

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Before dot runs too far with this William Brailsford, I see she mentions discharge papers, which probably means that her relative survived the war and would probably not be this man?

These two (including the one above) were killed:

Medal card of Brailsford, William H

Corps Regiment No Rank

Nottinghamshire and Derbyshire Regiment 3074 Private

Nottinghamshire and Derbyshire Regiment 240880 Private

Medal card of Brailsford, William

Corps Regiment No Rank

Nottinghamshire and Derbyshire Regiment 96009 Private

whilst I think these two survived:

Medal card of Brailsford, William

Corps Regiment No Rank

Nottinghamshire and Derbyshire Regiment 7th Reserve Battalion 20611 Private

Medal card of Brailsford, William H

Corps Regiment No Rank

Nottinghamshire and Derbyshire Regiment 19765 Private

Nottinghamshire and Derbyshire Regiment 19765 Private

These last two strike me as likely candidates for a late 1914 enlistment.

Steve.

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