Footballers died

[blighty valley]

i think the whole england team should

[flintwich]

Hibernian FC players who died in the Great War

Robert Wilson, an American citizen, born in Chicago

Sandy Grosert

Sergeant Patrick “Paddy” Hagan

Robert “Bobby” Atherton

Bobby Atherton was the last Hibs captain to lift the Scottish Cup.

He is commemorated on the Tower Hill memorial to the missing.

Glory Glory to the Hibees

Al

[Jack Alexander]

Hibernian FC players who died in the Great War

Robert Wilson, an American citizen, born in Chicago

Sandy Grosert

Sergeant Patrick “Paddy” Hagan

Robert “Bobby” Atherton

Bobby Atherton was the last Hibs captain to lift the Scottish Cup.

He is commemorated on the Tower Hill memorial to the missing.

Glory Glory to the Hibees

Al

This intelligence would come as worrying news to Sandy Grosert, who joined the 16th Royal Scots on its formation in 1914, was commissioned in the Gordon Highlanders, was wounded and awarded the Military Cross, and who survived the war to take up a career as a dentist and a fine amateur golfer - as befitted a leading member of Scotland's sporting (and the original 'Footballers') battalion.

[methy12]

I presume this thread is still going, and I'm learning a lot from it, so thankyou! Next year I hope to bring out a book about Derbyshire and the Great War. A part [smallish, sadly, given the scope of the book] willl be devoted to sportsmen with Derbyshire links, who gave their lives, or whose lives were affected by the war. To your list, I would add Reginald Henry Callender 31. 8. 1892.-5.10.1915. who played as an amateur for Derby County in the last stages of the 1914 season as well as as playing in the Varsity match of that year. He was a Cambridge Blue, who I think, also played for Stockton and Glossop at times.

[Stephen Nulty]

Methy12

Have you included Edwin Neve in your list of Derbyshire connections?

http://www.prescot-rollofhonour.info/casualty-241-Edwin_Neve.html

[methy12]

Hi Stephen,

Yes I have, I'd already seen the reference to him in the Derby Daily Telegraph, before I came across him on your site. Like you, I think his death is attributable to the war, and he deserves wider recognition, but I don't think, sadly, that I can include him in my book[ should it come to fruition!] because of it's limited scope. I have, however, passed his details on to a friend of mine called Peter Seddon. He, [unlike me!] is a proper football historian, author of a book on Steve Bloomer whose war was spent in internment in Ruhleben and 'The Football Compendium' published by The British Library. He had 'Ned' Neve as being somehow connected with WW1, but hadn't 'clocked him as a casualty. He also says he attended a course at Trent Poly [as it then was ] with Chris Neve, who he thinks, may have been a Great Grandson or other relation. He's filed the information away for any future article or book he may produce on the 'Rams' in the two wars.

Ian.

[dannyboy1807]

here is the list of the Crystal Palace players who were killed

HARRY HANGER - http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/1582055/HANGER,%20HARRY

ARTHUR HOOPER - http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/144866/HOOPER,%20A

JOSEPH BULCOCK - http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/uploads/monthly_09_2012/post-357-0-93150200-1347926164.jpg http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/93588/BULCOCK,%20JOSEPH

NORMAN WOOD - http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/1555437/WOOD,%20NORMAN%20A

ERNEST YORK - http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/1652533/YORK,%20E

JOHN BOWLER -

JAMES (JOHN) "GINGER" WILLIAMS - http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/774401/WILLIAMS,%20JOHN%20WILLIAM

EDWARD BELL MC/BAR - http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/551639/BELL,%20EDWARD%20INKERMAN%20JORDAN

DONALD BELL VC - well you all know about him.

this has been discussed a little on the Soliders section may come in handy

http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=69066&st=75

[dannyboy1807]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2059660/Officers-men-17th-Middlesex--Football-Battalion.html

[Jonathan Saunders]

here is the list of the Crystal Palace players who were killed ...

Just to clarify, you are saying these fatalities had all played for Crystal Palace, as thats quite a large number - also I hadnt realised Bell played for Palace - I only associated him with Newcastle.

I cant remember the player's name, but there was a Palace centre-half in the 20s that used to play with one arm strapped to his torso as a result of wounds received with the Royal West Kents in F&F. (I may have mentioned him previously in this thread). I think he captained Palace as well. Obviously the game has changed enormously in the last 90 years - its less physical but requires greater levels of fitness - but I found it remarkable that this man was still able to play at a high level and of all places, at centre half.

[dannyboy1807]

yes all of those were killed some were at other clubs by then but had played for us, we lost 3 players who were still playing for us when they went to war, Donald Bell played for Palace when he was at school down in Westminster we were an amateur team when he played (he played professional for Bradford Park Avenue), Edward Bell played for Palace when were an amateur team also.

I know of 4 that survived the war Harry (Horace) Colclough (our first ever England International), Jack Alderson(it wouldn't be him he was a keeper played 192 games for us) and Dick Allman (was a reserve player) and the last one William Middleton he played for us for a season went to war and played a season after 1919-1920 then went to Scotland.

the only one I know who was captain was Harry Hanger he was killed in 1918 (he enlisted in 1915).

a lot of info I got was from a person on a Crystal Palace forum..

Edited 3 April , 2013 by dannyboy1807

[BereniceUK]

gunner e bullen rfa, kia 11/08/1917 ( 11.a.9 ) vraucourt copse cemetery vaulx- vraucourt france, is the only player to be killed in the great war who played for the great bury fc

Bury F.C. have Teddy Bullen's photo and a plaque on display.

159600 Gunner E.Bullen, "C" Company. 312th Brigade, Royal Field Artillery. Died 11th August 1917. Buried at Vraucourt Copse Cemetery, Vaulx-Vraucourt.

[dannyboy1807]

Just to clarify, you are saying these fatalities had all played for Crystal Palace, as thats quite a large number - also I hadnt realised Bell played for Palace - I only associated him with Newcastle.

I cant remember the player's name, but there was a Palace centre-half in the 20s that used to play with one arm strapped to his torso as a result of wounds received with the Royal West Kents in F&F. (I may have mentioned him previously in this thread). I think he captained Palace as well. Obviously the game has changed enormously in the last 90 years - its less physical but requires greater levels of fitness - but I found it remarkable that this man was still able to play at a high level and of all places, at centre half.

Hello,

I know it's been a while but I have finally managed to get a name for him Phil Bates - thanks to some fellow Palace fans.

a Pension Record for a Philip Bates that lived in Beckenham and joined up in 1914 at Bromley which supports that. The record shows he was discharged in 1916 as 'unfit' as a result of a gunshot wound to his right shoulder that shattered the 'head of the right humerus'. He was in hospital for 4 months.

[Neil Pudney]

Hello,

I know it's been a while but I have finally managed to get a name for him Phil Bates

a Pension Record for a Philip Bates that lived in Beckenham and joined up in 1914 at Bromley which supports that. The record shows he was discharged in 1916 as 'unfit' as a result of a gunshot wound to his right shoulder that shattered the 'head of the right humerus'. He was in hospital for 4 months.

Hello Danny - it's Grassboy here Knew I'd track you down on here eventually

[dannyboy1807]

Hello Danny - it's Grassboy here Knew I'd track you down on here eventually

Hello mate,

we need some match reports from early 1905-1918 see if we can find more players, from the book where the whistle blows it names a couple of players who enlisted at the very beginning for the Footballers Battlion.

[Jonathan Saunders]

Hello,

I know it's been a while but I have finally managed to get a name for him Phil Bates - thanks to some fellow Palace fans.

a Pension Record for a Philip Bates that lived in Beckenham and joined up in 1914 at Bromley which supports that. The record shows he was discharged in 1916 as 'unfit' as a result of a gunshot wound to his right shoulder that shattered the 'head of the right humerus'. He was in hospital for 4 months.

Good work Danny. I knew I hadnt made it up!

[IM75]

Hi Guys

Some great information in this thread, so a big thank you for sharing it all.

I was going to start a new thread for this, but I guess this is as good a place as any....

I have recently launched a pretty ambitious new Centenary Project called 'Football and the First World War' which aims to record every player that served during the war, alongside other relevant content such as photograph, document and newspaper archives. I aim to include sections on both "domestic football" and "military football", covering all nations.

The website has been designed and hosted (although it is not yet live), with players sub-divided into the clubs they were playing for in the 1914/15 season. So far I have uploaded clubs for the Football League First Division, Second Division and Southern League Division One, but I will add the rest in the coming days before the main, and a little daunting, work of detailing the players who served from those clubs can begin.

I have all-but finished the Aston Villa section, although there have already been a number of anomalies. I have 20 players from 1914/15 who served in the military, complete with profiles of both their football and military careers, and also a fairly big list of former players and those with no club records. The players who were employed in war service on the home front are also listed separately.

Here are some screenshots of what I am trying to achieve:

The profiles will be updated over time, when any new information comes forward, and will eventually be linked across the site. The profile above was an early draft, but it shows what I am trying to achieve.

As you can imagine, this is turning into a massive project and as much as I enjoy research and writing, it is probably far too big for little old me on my own. With that in mind, I have set the site up so it works similar to Wikipedia - meaning people can update it themselves if they have more information. I intend to set it up so people have to be registered and approved (so as to avoid cranks), but I believe this can develop into a fantastic project and one that can involve many people.

Ideally, I suppose it would be good to have individual researchers for each club, meaning there is less chance of unintentional omission of players. With that in mind, I would very much like as many people as possible involved, so if you are interested, please do let me know and I can send over more details.

In the meantime, there is a Twitter account here and Facebook page here

Thanks again

Iain

[Fattyowls]

Iain

I haven't had a chance to visit your site yet but it looks epic; I think there is huge potential for a central point of contact for research on footballers as so many players moved clubs before and after the war. The field (if you will pardon the pun) is huge and if all of those interested can share the research and provide constructive criticism it will be really useful. I met Kevin Moore, the director of the National Football Museum a month or so ago and he was certainly thinking about the Great War and football. I'm trying to put something together to try and tell the story of the war through Everton's serving men and I'm just about to post a few requests for help.

Let me know if there is anything I can do to assist with your project.

Pete.

[IM75]

Iain

I haven't had a chance to visit your site yet but it looks epic; I think there is huge potential for a central point of contact for research on footballers as so many players moved clubs before and after the war. The field (if you will pardon the pun) is huge and if all of those interested can share the research and provide constructive criticism it will be really useful. I met Kevin Moore, the director of the National Football Museum a month or so ago and he was certainly thinking about the Great War and football. I'm trying to put something together to try and tell the story of the war through Everton's serving men and I'm just about to post a few requests for help.

Let me know if there is anything I can do to assist with your project.

Pete.

Hi Pete

Thanks for posting. I'm getting in touch with the National Football Museum and a few more organisations (The PFA etc) this week, so hopefully the project can get some "official" backing.

Regarding help, would you be interested in putting the Everton section together? Obviously it is ongoing, so it can be updated as and when new information comes to light. I'm just looking over a few team records online now, but I will be getting in touch with more clubs tomorrow as well as a few other contacts I've got from my "day job".

There's tons of information, it's just a case of sifting through it and cross-referencing the many anomalies that have already popped up.

Thanks again and I'll keep posting updates

Iain

[The Scorer]

^{As a result of a similar (but different thread) I e-mailed the FA museum at Preston asking whether the FA had ever compiled a roll of honour. I thought you might be interested in their helpful reply.}

"Hello Andrew,

As far as I know the FA never drew up a roll of honour. Perhaps the reason was that so many footballers (professionals, semi professionals and amateurs), hundreds of thousands, served in the forces and thousands died, how long would you make the list? The FA did commission a large metal plaque, around 1922, which was put on the wall of their HQ in London. When they moved to new offices recently, it was given to us to keep. I attach a photograph of it being unveiled by Gordon Taylor of the PFA about 3 years ago.

Perhaps individual football clubs had a roll of honour, but I doubt whether these would be easy to find. There was a Football Relief Fund set up by the FA later in the war and this continued to give out grants to injured ex footballers or widows through the 1920s and into the 1930s. We find these listed in the printed FA minutes which we have copies of.

Perhaps you could ask the FA library in London (David Barber) if he has heard of a Roll of Honour or contact the Professional Footballers Association (PFA) in Manchester who may have something. A long shot I am afraid. Let me know if you find anything. I would be interested.

Regards,

Peter Holme

Reseach Officer"

In my reply I shall point Peter in the direction of this excellent thread.

^{The attached piccie:}

^{The memorial plaque is now on display in the National Football Museum in Manchester.}

^{It is part of a display on Football in the First World War, with a section on Donald Bell VC and a case containing other memorabilia. I don't have my records with me at the moment, but I'm sure that Donald Bell's Victoria Cross is on display; it is now owned by the Professional Footballers Association.}

[Jonathan Saunders]

I have recently launched a pretty ambitious new Centenary Project called 'Football and the First World War' which aims to record every player that served during the war, alongside other relevant content such as photograph, document and newspaper archives. I aim to include sections on both "domestic football" and "military football", covering all nations.

Good luck with this. It is a mamoth undertaking but would be a fantastic resource and form of memorial.

Best wishes,

Jonathan S

[IM75]

Good luck with this. It is a mamoth undertaking but would be a fantastic resource and form of memorial.

Best wishes,

Jonathan S

Thanks Jonathan

Things are going well so far, but it is a mammoth undertaking you're right. Plenty of people showing an interest so far however, so I'm pretty happy with the progress we've made in the short time the site has been live. We're also still in talks with a few organisations and have got official partner status with the IWM-led Centenary Programme, which is good.

I'm still tweaking things with the layout etc but I hope to enable a system where pre-approved registered users can add and update information when they like, making things a lot easier to keep on top of.

If anybody has anything they can add to the site, or notice any errors, please get in touch - all input will be very much appreciated!

Thanks

Iain

[Fattyowls]

Hi Pete

Thanks for posting. I'm getting in touch with the National Football Museum and a few more organisations (The PFA etc) this week, so hopefully the project can get some "official" backing.

Regarding help, would you be interested in putting the Everton section together? Obviously it is ongoing, so it can be updated as and when new information comes to light. I'm just looking over a few team records online now, but I will be getting in touch with more clubs tomorrow as well as a few other contacts I've got from my "day job".

There's tons of information, it's just a case of sifting through it and cross-referencing the many anomalies that have already popped up.

Thanks again and I'll keep posting updates

Iain

Iain

Happy to help with anything, just ask. Sorry for the delay replying; my friends at the Everton Heritage Society think that there might be another casualty of the war who was on Everton's books so I've been doing a bit of research. This individual illustrates one of the problems I've encountered which is what constitutes a footballer. I tend towards a broad definition which includes anyone who turned out for one of the clubs teams even if they didn't make the first XI. This particular chap may have played for Everton reserves.

I think the cross referencing aspect of what you are doing is so important; I'm currently trying (and failing) to find anything on Warney Cresswell's war service. He was in the RFA and was apparently captured which makes him of particular interest to me. Warney Cresswell was briefly the most expensive player in England when he joined Sunderland and played for Morton, Hearts and Hibs in Scotland during the early part of the war. So anything I can find about his war service would be relevant to five clubs; it makes sense to share the information.

Pete.

[Ghazala]

I know this is on a previous page but could not resist posting it again. A brilliant memorial at Longueval.

[dannyboy1807]

This is what Leyton Orient fans have done for the 3 players they had that made the Ultimate Sacrifice very fitting indeed.

[dannyboy1807]

as for the website IM75 i found it by chance on Twitter yesterday I have followed you (dannyboy1807)

had a little look last night and it was very good, load of us Palace fans are trying to find out ourselves a definite list of players who played for or were playing for Palace who served in the war.